Dimple or Countersink??

A forum in which to discuss topics that are not specific to a particular series of aircraft (ie. how to cut alclad)
Post Reply
User avatar
Lorin Dueck
Class D
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:12 pm
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Dimple or Countersink??

Post by Lorin Dueck »

All -
I'm ready to prepare the tank skin - to baffle joint.

Image

Van's directions say to countersink the spanwise row of rivets.. but I'm concerned about the thickness of the skin.
I've also read posts where builders have dimpled the row and not had any problem assembling or sealing their tanks.

Any hints or "watch-outs"??

Thx, Lorin D
9A Wings
N194LD reserved

User avatar
captain_john
Sparky
Posts: 5880
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:17 am
Location: KPYM

Post by captain_john »

Hey Lorin,

Some builders have dimpled this skin by mistake. It is thin enough to warrant a dimple, but from what I am told... it is easier to install the baffle with countersinks instead.

The guys who have dimpled it, say no problems... ny and large. Me... I followed the plans and had no problems.

CS it and make life easier on yourself.

:) CJ
RV-7
Garmin G3X with VP-X & a TMX-IO-360 with G3i
It's all over but the flying! 800+ hours in only 3 years!

Spike
Chief Rivet Banger
Posts: 4013
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Post by Spike »

I think the spec says that you can CS anything that is a minimum of .032" I used to have problems swallowing that but have since learned that it really is feasible to do a nice job on something that thing. Go for it.
http://www.rivetbangers.com - Now integrating web and mail!
Current Build: 2 years into a beautiful little girl

User avatar
captain_john
Sparky
Posts: 5880
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:17 am
Location: KPYM

Post by captain_john »

Yup, this is true!

The problem comes when the rivet sits so deeply that the shoulder of the 100 degree head comes to rest on the flush surface of the underlying material.

This causes a stress riser and a "bad thing" for lackuva bettah wherd.

Rule O' Thumb... Dimple stuff less than .040 and CS stuff .040 and larger. Write it on your wall. Wicked Stick did and that's where I learned it from!

Pass it around...

:mrgreen: CJ
RV-7
Garmin G3X with VP-X & a TMX-IO-360 with G3i
It's all over but the flying! 800+ hours in only 3 years!

User avatar
Wicked Stick
Class B
Posts: 1000
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:00 pm
Location: KEWB

Post by Wicked Stick »

You can dimple .040 and I think that's the cut-off for thickness.

In my 8's plans it mentions that you can dimple the rear spar channel on the wings where it is .040 and then clean it up a bit with a derbur tool to have the rivet or dimpled skin sit nice and flush.

There are other areas of .040 that get dimpled as well in my project.

There are also other areas of .040 that DO NOT get dimpled like the tank baffle and a rear spar piece on the Elevator where the trim tab mounts.

I think a friend of mine tried to dimple his tank baffle and it didn't work well for some reason, so he ordered a new baffle and skin and countersunk the skin per plans on the 2nd try. I forget why it didn't work out, but I'd follow the plans more if it does call out for it to do so.

Also, very important, when countersinking the tank skins... Keep the baffle clecoed in place so that the countersink bit stays put inside the baffles hole. Otherwise, if you just try to countersink the skin by itself you'll ruin it because it will wander since it's too thin.
Dave "WS" Rogers
RV-8 (125 hrs & counting)
N173DR

User avatar
Lorin Dueck
Class D
Posts: 252
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:12 pm
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Post by Lorin Dueck »

All -
It's unanamous.. Countersink it is!!

BTW - the holes came out great....
- Rivet head is flush with surface,
- Bottom of cone is at the joint line - but still in the skin.

Image

You guys are the best....

Lorin D
9A Wings
(N194LD reserved)

User avatar
cjensen
Whiskey Victor
Posts: 5275
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:36 pm
Location: Green Bay, WI

Post by cjensen »

I'm really glad you started this thread Lorin! I'm right behind you!

Image

8)
Chad Jensen
Missing my RV-7...
Vertical Power support
920.216.3699
http://verticalpower.com

ptrotter
Class E
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:45 am
Location: New Jersey

Post by ptrotter »

The reason for countersinking the tank skin rather than dimpling it is that if you dimple, the rivet tail extends farther through the baffle and may hit the spar reinforcment bars, thus not allowing the tank to seat properly on the wing. Countersinking avoids this problem.
Paul Trotter
RV-8 82080 Finish Kit
N801PT

User avatar
captain_john
Sparky
Posts: 5880
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:17 am
Location: KPYM

Post by captain_john »

Ahhhhhhh, I seeeee!

Paul that makes sense! It would only be an interference issue in the first 6 or 10 innermost rivets on each side.

I am also convinced that it makes it easier to get a good seal with the goop.

:) CJ
RV-7
Garmin G3X with VP-X & a TMX-IO-360 with G3i
It's all over but the flying! 800+ hours in only 3 years!

ptrotter
Class E
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:45 am
Location: New Jersey

Post by ptrotter »

That's correct CJ.
Paul Trotter
RV-8 82080 Finish Kit
N801PT

Post Reply