How I did my pneumatic lines
- captain_john
- Sparky
- Posts: 5880
- Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:17 am
- Location: KPYM
How I did my pneumatic lines
OK, this tread I wrote because I enjoy running pneumatic lines and think I did an average to good job on my own system. There are lots of questions regarding this topic, so I put together this thread as a reference tool.
First of all, get the BIGGEST CFM compressor you can afford. I doesn't have to be a 2 stage unit, as your working pressures will be below 90 psi all of the time. A bigger tank will limit cycling, so too will the higher pressures of the 2 stage unit.
Jim Geo offered this advice that is all good:
OK I’ve had to deal with this stuff for almost 30 years. So here goes. Starting with the Physics of what is happening. Free air contains water vapor we all know it as humidity. Anyone that has placed their hand on a compressor while it’s running or shortly after knows they get hot, VERY hot. This happens because when you start mashing air molecules together the space between the molecules becomes smaller and they begin to collide. That causes heat caused by friction. The act of compressing air does not cause water to condense in our tanks in fact it encourages water to stay put as a vapor. When compressed air is stored in a bottle it contains energy because we have in fact added energy to it. One way of looking at is that we change the form of the electricity from the wall plug and it is now stored as wind energy in our tank. When we open the valve releasing the air to a standard atmosphere the compressed air looses energy that energy loss is in the form of heat loss, thereby encouraging water to condense and form water droplets. If we were able to stand inside our pressure vessel we could watch a cloud form around us as the pressure dropped. This pressure drop is exactly how refrigeration happens in our kitchens.
Dealing with the water that forms is always a problem. My solution is this. I hate draining my tank so I remove the drain valve and make that my main tank air line connection. I regulate my air pressure with a wall mounted regulator but that’s another story. My main air line runs into about 20’ of half inch copper tube that is coiled in a 55 gallon drum filled with water this is otherwise known as a condenser. After that the air goes through a centrifugal water trap. I empty that trap at least once a month during the winter and once a week during the summer. Using this system I never forget to purge my pressure tank since it automatically happens every time I use a tool. My air stays amazingly dry. I also use U bends equip with drain valves at my hose connections. I rarely get any water from my hose connection sites unless I have forgotten to drain my centrifugal water trap. One thing to note is a little water in your tools isn’t going to kill them but a little bit of water in your spray gun is going to wreck an otherwise great paint job.
Basically, you will have water in the line whenever you compress air. The water condenses when the air becomes hot from compression.
This is why I got a 60 gallon compressor. When I paint, I leave the compressor off and use the cool air in the the tank for my painting job.
If you place a good sized coil between the tank and your water separator it will serve as a heat exchanger. This should be fairly large. A few sections of baseboard heat will work quite well. This will cool the air, separate the water from the air, be trapped in the water collector and be nice and dry at your point of use.
The next thing you will need is a FRL Setup. This is a filter/regulator/lubricator... and the lubricator is optional.
Mine feeds from the right and distributes to the left.
Going from right to left we have a UNION right after the globe valve. This allows me to remove the connection easily, should I need to. A flexible connection is preferred here, as the machine vibrates and what not.
This flexi connection ties into my distribution lines.
I have a dirt leg with a ball valve directly below the perpendicular feed to blow off any water (yes, it does collect there!) and schmeg before it enters the distrib. system.
This is all mounted on electrical "Minerallac Clips" available from HFD (ya, I know you call it that too!) or Lowes. Space them off the wall with short stubs of PVC and long toggle bolts.
The first thing you need to attach is the filter/water seperator. I went with all 1/2" devices, but 3/8" and 1/4" are fine, depending on your needs. From there, nipple over to a regulator. I recommend a "T" after the regulator, so you can now tap off for painting.
You can see the paint tap and ball valve there on mine.
Next:
...is another ball valve with the lubricator portion. When I am painting, I normally leave this closed just to prevent any bad JU-JU from happening. the second regulator is for my low pressure tools. The large 3/8" line going through the wall is my "HI-Pressure coil" mounted on the other side of the wall.
The "LO-Pressure one ends up under my bench like this:
For the LO-Pressure stuff, I use this 90 PSI hose from HFD with press on connectors:
Looks like I have a leak there!
Oh well, not a biggie!
The paint booth stuff looks like this:
When I drain the tank, I use these little parts trays and it pees into them like a drug test!
It works for me!!!
Hope this helps you!!!
CJ
First of all, get the BIGGEST CFM compressor you can afford. I doesn't have to be a 2 stage unit, as your working pressures will be below 90 psi all of the time. A bigger tank will limit cycling, so too will the higher pressures of the 2 stage unit.
Jim Geo offered this advice that is all good:
OK I’ve had to deal with this stuff for almost 30 years. So here goes. Starting with the Physics of what is happening. Free air contains water vapor we all know it as humidity. Anyone that has placed their hand on a compressor while it’s running or shortly after knows they get hot, VERY hot. This happens because when you start mashing air molecules together the space between the molecules becomes smaller and they begin to collide. That causes heat caused by friction. The act of compressing air does not cause water to condense in our tanks in fact it encourages water to stay put as a vapor. When compressed air is stored in a bottle it contains energy because we have in fact added energy to it. One way of looking at is that we change the form of the electricity from the wall plug and it is now stored as wind energy in our tank. When we open the valve releasing the air to a standard atmosphere the compressed air looses energy that energy loss is in the form of heat loss, thereby encouraging water to condense and form water droplets. If we were able to stand inside our pressure vessel we could watch a cloud form around us as the pressure dropped. This pressure drop is exactly how refrigeration happens in our kitchens.
Dealing with the water that forms is always a problem. My solution is this. I hate draining my tank so I remove the drain valve and make that my main tank air line connection. I regulate my air pressure with a wall mounted regulator but that’s another story. My main air line runs into about 20’ of half inch copper tube that is coiled in a 55 gallon drum filled with water this is otherwise known as a condenser. After that the air goes through a centrifugal water trap. I empty that trap at least once a month during the winter and once a week during the summer. Using this system I never forget to purge my pressure tank since it automatically happens every time I use a tool. My air stays amazingly dry. I also use U bends equip with drain valves at my hose connections. I rarely get any water from my hose connection sites unless I have forgotten to drain my centrifugal water trap. One thing to note is a little water in your tools isn’t going to kill them but a little bit of water in your spray gun is going to wreck an otherwise great paint job.
Basically, you will have water in the line whenever you compress air. The water condenses when the air becomes hot from compression.
This is why I got a 60 gallon compressor. When I paint, I leave the compressor off and use the cool air in the the tank for my painting job.
If you place a good sized coil between the tank and your water separator it will serve as a heat exchanger. This should be fairly large. A few sections of baseboard heat will work quite well. This will cool the air, separate the water from the air, be trapped in the water collector and be nice and dry at your point of use.
The next thing you will need is a FRL Setup. This is a filter/regulator/lubricator... and the lubricator is optional.
Mine feeds from the right and distributes to the left.
Going from right to left we have a UNION right after the globe valve. This allows me to remove the connection easily, should I need to. A flexible connection is preferred here, as the machine vibrates and what not.
This flexi connection ties into my distribution lines.
I have a dirt leg with a ball valve directly below the perpendicular feed to blow off any water (yes, it does collect there!) and schmeg before it enters the distrib. system.
This is all mounted on electrical "Minerallac Clips" available from HFD (ya, I know you call it that too!) or Lowes. Space them off the wall with short stubs of PVC and long toggle bolts.
The first thing you need to attach is the filter/water seperator. I went with all 1/2" devices, but 3/8" and 1/4" are fine, depending on your needs. From there, nipple over to a regulator. I recommend a "T" after the regulator, so you can now tap off for painting.
You can see the paint tap and ball valve there on mine.
Next:
...is another ball valve with the lubricator portion. When I am painting, I normally leave this closed just to prevent any bad JU-JU from happening. the second regulator is for my low pressure tools. The large 3/8" line going through the wall is my "HI-Pressure coil" mounted on the other side of the wall.
The "LO-Pressure one ends up under my bench like this:
For the LO-Pressure stuff, I use this 90 PSI hose from HFD with press on connectors:
Looks like I have a leak there!
Oh well, not a biggie!
The paint booth stuff looks like this:
When I drain the tank, I use these little parts trays and it pees into them like a drug test!
It works for me!!!
Hope this helps you!!!
CJ
RV-7
Garmin G3X with VP-X & a TMX-IO-360 with G3i
It's all over but the flying! 800+ hours in only 3 years!
Garmin G3X with VP-X & a TMX-IO-360 with G3i
It's all over but the flying! 800+ hours in only 3 years!
- captain_john
- Sparky
- Posts: 5880
- Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:17 am
- Location: KPYM
Thanks guys!
The plane is coming along pretty well, I think. One thing is certain though, no speed records for airplane building are being set this winter. School has me hoppin! This summer though, it will ALL BE DIFFERENT! When school lets out, it will be FULL SPEED AHEAD!
CJ
The plane is coming along pretty well, I think. One thing is certain though, no speed records for airplane building are being set this winter. School has me hoppin! This summer though, it will ALL BE DIFFERENT! When school lets out, it will be FULL SPEED AHEAD!
CJ
RV-7
Garmin G3X with VP-X & a TMX-IO-360 with G3i
It's all over but the flying! 800+ hours in only 3 years!
Garmin G3X with VP-X & a TMX-IO-360 with G3i
It's all over but the flying! 800+ hours in only 3 years!
- captain_john
- Sparky
- Posts: 5880
- Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:17 am
- Location: KPYM
Wow, that's some fantastic setup, very nicely done! (I guess, as you said, you really do enjoy running pneumatic lines.) I'm afraid to admit my set up is a little simpler, tank+regulator to hose to tool. But now I'm a little worried, you say you have a "filter/water separator". It seems that I forgot that little detail. Have I been rusting the insides of my expensive drill and rivet gun, or filling them with other debris?
John
John
no biggie john...after much trial and error, here's the setup i ended up with-
that's right off the compressor (obviously). i put in a T splitter after the filter that puts one line to a second regulator for riveting, the other for drilling/grinding. this is the riveting line, the other hose comes out the bottom of my sound box around the compressor.
that's all the lines i ended up running, and it works great! as for oiling, as was suggested here on rivetbangers from avaviat (jon), i bought 4 mini oilers from the yard that install right at the base of each air tool. it's a little resavoir for the oil, and it injects it to the tool with air flowing. pretty cool!
that's right off the compressor (obviously). i put in a T splitter after the filter that puts one line to a second regulator for riveting, the other for drilling/grinding. this is the riveting line, the other hose comes out the bottom of my sound box around the compressor.
that's all the lines i ended up running, and it works great! as for oiling, as was suggested here on rivetbangers from avaviat (jon), i bought 4 mini oilers from the yard that install right at the base of each air tool. it's a little resavoir for the oil, and it injects it to the tool with air flowing. pretty cool!
- captain_john
- Sparky
- Posts: 5880
- Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:17 am
- Location: KPYM
John, I would consider it a frill... but that is what I am all about.johnk wrote:Wow, that's some fantastic setup, very nicely done! (I guess, as you said, you really do enjoy running pneumatic lines.) I'm afraid to admit my set up is a little simpler, tank+regulator to hose to tool. But now I'm a little worried, you say you have a "filter/water separator". It seems that I forgot that little detail. Have I been rusting the insides of my expensive drill and rivet gun, or filling them with other debris?
John
Your tools are probably live way beyond the project without it. You should lubricate them the old fashioned way with a drop of oil in the "goes-intah" hole from time to time for good measure.
As far as debris goes... new compressor, new lines... not much to worry about.
Mebbe in time you may want one?
CJ
RV-7
Garmin G3X with VP-X & a TMX-IO-360 with G3i
It's all over but the flying! 800+ hours in only 3 years!
Garmin G3X with VP-X & a TMX-IO-360 with G3i
It's all over but the flying! 800+ hours in only 3 years!
JohnK, I'm running a hose direct from the built in regulator on the compressor, too. I'm not worried about it, but that's just me. I've got an oilless compressor (no it isn't noisy) so maybe I should throw a drop of lube to the tools periodically.
As far as water, well, it condenses when the pressure is released. The standard "water traps" only filter liquid water, but most of the stuff in the lines is going to be vapor that doesn't condense until it gets inside the tool anyway.
The best test for water is to connect an air nozzle and blow it at your hand. If your hand gets wet, you've got liquid water or water vapor in there. If it doesn't, you don't. We've got lines at work that are dry as a bone and ones that you could put out a fire with. Go figure.
If I was to paint at home, though, I'd buy a genuine air dryer, and I believe that they're a tad on the spendy side.
Jon
As far as water, well, it condenses when the pressure is released. The standard "water traps" only filter liquid water, but most of the stuff in the lines is going to be vapor that doesn't condense until it gets inside the tool anyway.
The best test for water is to connect an air nozzle and blow it at your hand. If your hand gets wet, you've got liquid water or water vapor in there. If it doesn't, you don't. We've got lines at work that are dry as a bone and ones that you could put out a fire with. Go figure.
If I was to paint at home, though, I'd buy a genuine air dryer, and I believe that they're a tad on the spendy side.
Jon
Gents,
Thanks for the comments on the water/debris filter. I have been putting about 2-4 drops of lube into the tool's air inlet after every couple of days of use (on the rivet gun, the oil then slowly sprays back out the exhaust port onto the aluminum). Interesting comment about blowing air on your hand and looking for water, I don't think I feel it on my hand, but when I blow air onto a shiny alclad surface, I think I see very tiny specks of water form on the surface that quickly evaporate. I think I'll just continue as I have been for now.
One thing I wish I had is a plumbed-in vacuum system. My kids are down in the shop frequently and I like to keep all the metal debris cleaned up. I have a band saw, drill press, and various other hand and power tools that leave metal bits all over. My present technique is to drag the shop-vac around and vacuum after each major operation.
John
Thanks for the comments on the water/debris filter. I have been putting about 2-4 drops of lube into the tool's air inlet after every couple of days of use (on the rivet gun, the oil then slowly sprays back out the exhaust port onto the aluminum). Interesting comment about blowing air on your hand and looking for water, I don't think I feel it on my hand, but when I blow air onto a shiny alclad surface, I think I see very tiny specks of water form on the surface that quickly evaporate. I think I'll just continue as I have been for now.
One thing I wish I had is a plumbed-in vacuum system. My kids are down in the shop frequently and I like to keep all the metal debris cleaned up. I have a band saw, drill press, and various other hand and power tools that leave metal bits all over. My present technique is to drag the shop-vac around and vacuum after each major operation.
John
- captain_john
- Sparky
- Posts: 5880
- Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:17 am
- Location: KPYM
John, You may want to start cutting down on the oil. a single drop is fine. If it is shooting out, that is too much.
Consider your tanks. When you get there, you won't want any oil shooting out of the gun exhaust. It could contaminate the surface.
CJ
Consider your tanks. When you get there, you won't want any oil shooting out of the gun exhaust. It could contaminate the surface.
CJ
RV-7
Garmin G3X with VP-X & a TMX-IO-360 with G3i
It's all over but the flying! 800+ hours in only 3 years!
Garmin G3X with VP-X & a TMX-IO-360 with G3i
It's all over but the flying! 800+ hours in only 3 years!