RivetBangers.com

Hello I'm a aviation perfessional considering building rv-s. So I'm doing research on the demand for professional builds.

I think you'll find that the demand for professional builders in the US is low. The FAA requires that a minimum of 51% is amateur built.

You can assist with portions of the build, but not build turnkey RV's commercially. With that said, there is significant gray areas and it's hard for the FAA to police. I also know of instances where the owner misrepresented the truth on the documents on the percentage of the aircraft that was amateur built. If they get caught, the ramifications could be significant.

That's good information but what defines an amature. Let's say.... a person with an a&p can't be an amature? I am simply wondering. And thank you for the reply

I suppose it depends on what you mean by professional builds. As Bob stated, 51% of the work must be completed by a amateur builder. So say the kit Van's sells is roughly 25% completed by the factory, A professional can assist up to 24% of the work, which means the amateur can complete the remaining 51%. Now, with that being said, there are plenty of shops that bend the rules on this (2 weeks to taxi is an example). There are other builder assists shops out there where an A&P or professional builder assist.

Are you looking to help builders complete their RV's, or build RV's yourself and then sell them completed?

Oh, most importantly, WELCOME TO RIVETBANGERS!!!

I am in treated in owner assistance through the sheetmetal build and with mods. It's not very cost effective as far as I can tell to buy new build and sell.

I should add im a professional aviation sheetmetal smith not try to make a profession off rvs. Just looking into the field cause the rvs iv seen have ok at best riveting. And thought it would be fun to help while earning money. most of what i do is warbird and bits of g.a.

Thanks bull

The rule on 51 percent seems to wave for faa airframe mechs. Seems more to regulate amutures? Can a armature builder build 100 percent without paperwork and not be restrictive?

The rule on 51 percent seems to wave for faa airframe mechs. Seems more to regulate amutures? Can a armature builder build 100 percent without paperwork and not be restrictive?

bullojm1 wrote:I suppose it depends on what you mean by professional builds. As Bob stated, 51% of the work must be completed by a amateur builder. So say the kit Van's sells is roughly 25% completed by the factory, A professional can assist up to 24% of the work, which means the amateur can complete the remaining 51%. Now, with that being said, there are plenty of shops that bend the rules on this (2 weeks to taxi is an example). There are other builder assists shops out there where an A&P or professional builder assist.

Are you looking to help builders complete their RV's, or build RV's yourself and then sell them completed?

Oh, most importantly, WELCOME TO RIVETBANGERS!!!

Amateur is defined as anyone that is not getting paid, but specifically, the FAA states is just building for education and enjoyment. This is strictly for EAB aircraft and doesn't apply to any other type of airframes.

Like Mike mentioned, you can assist others as a paid professional A&P, but the aircraft owner has to declare your work when they register the aircraft. They have to sign a form stately that is 51% amateur built.

With my RV-10, I had to declare about 10 hours of assistance from an A&P and the paint shop. Fortunately, the paint shop doesn't count as part of the 51% rule, but my FSDO wanted to see all paid participants of the build listed.

Yes, an amateur can complete a 100% of the work not performed by the kit manufacturer. Understand that this isn't 100% of the kit. Most kit suppliers perform 20-40% of the work as part of supplying you the kit. Each kit manufacturer has a form that details all the percentages for each sub assembly. You seldom see the forms for well know kits, like RVs, since FSDO and DARs are very familiar with them. If you ask Van's they will send it to you.

S2Trivetbanger wrote:The rule on 51 percent seems to wave for faa airframe mechs. Seems more to regulate amutures? Can a armature builder build 100 percent without paperwork and not be restrictive?

Huh?

Waive what for A&P's?

None of us have any restrictions on our planes. We built 100 percnt of them.

CJ

A&P or no A&P, the only time that makes any difference to the FAA is when doing a condition inspection. A&P can inspect a plan he/she didn't build, otherwise only the builder who got the certificate can inspect.

So whether the builder is an A&P or not the 51% still applies.

Steve

Can a armature builder build 100 percent without paperwork and not be restrictive?

On this part of the question, any builder (A&P or not) needs to keep paperwork and show it to he FAA if they expect to get an airworthiness certificate and be able to fly the plane when it's completed.

Steve

Welcome S2T! How much would you charge to build left flap for an RV?

Vlad Email me at v6zuk@yahoo.com I would like to help you

S2Trivetbanger wrote:Vlad Email me at v6zuk@yahoo.com I would like to help you

Email sent. Thank you.

sibriggs wrote:Can a armature builder build 100 percent without paperwork and not be restrictive?

On this part of the question, any builder (A&P or not) needs to keep paperwork and show it to he FAA if they expect to get an airworthiness certificate and be able to fly the plane when it's completed.

Steve

Even if we build 100% of the kits as delivered by Van's, the actual percentage the FAA is concerned about be in amateur built is only about 60%-70% (a guess off the top of my head). The exact percentage varies per model. Van's has performed some of the work as they prepare the kits for us. Each kit supplier has a form that was submitted to the FAA as to the percentage of completion for each of their kits. Van's is so well known that most of the DAR and FSDO inspectors don't ask to see this form. With other kit providers that are less know, you need this form to prove your 51%. There also some tasks that are outside this equation like engine, panel, and painting.

Really like to know what faults you are finding on quick build by vans. I have 40 years as a a&p and have been involved in the prototype x47b and wouldn’t call vans rivets “fair at best”.
I suspect that comment was a attempt to concern the unknowing and try to drum up business.