7/7A

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:09 pm

okay, i'm not looking for pro's and con's here, necessarily. i'm not even sure this should be in the 'help me decide' category. but, since it is a one or the other kind of thing, i guess there's no better place.

i've been doing some light checking in to insurance lately, mainly because of my recent deposit and engine choice. my main question is, are any of you low or no tailwheel time pilots afraid of the insurance costs that you may incurr (sp?) for first flight/first year if you're building a TW? i REALLY want a taildragger, but i have 2 landings under my belt (with help), and i have no idea where i'm gonna get an endorsement or when i'll have time to get it. this got me thinking...should i really be building a TW??? we've hashed out the differences between the two several times, so i guess i'm wondering if the look and challenge of a TW airplane is worth the extra cost if they FLY the same??? has anyone seriously checked on this? i wonder how much money (and therefore, how much more flying i could do) i would save a year on insurance costs. engine choice aside...opinions?

can't believe i'm even asking/considering this...

jim pappas: if you still have my last email sittin' around, you can respond here or email. i don't mind if my quotes are public (at least in this forum).

jim_geo · Post by **jim_geo** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:46 pm

Over the weekend I talked with a new acquaintance of mine who built an RV 4. It’s great to talk building over coffee on a Sunday morning. He has been out to the shop to see my progress once about a month ago. Anyway, he was telling me about his awesome rate of climb and handling of his plane and making me feel like I can’t finish my 7 fast enough. He also owns a champ and has flown tail wheel… well from what I can tell most of the time. Not realizing or perhaps not remembering that I’m building a 7A he offered to let me go along with him and land his 4 a few times. He qualified that by saying it’s easy to land and wouldn’t take me, as a tri gear pilot, long to get onto. I would hope take offs would have been included although I'm sure sure he would have been that forthcoming. So I’m assuming as a person who knows no better that while a tail wheel plane can always get away from you these RV’s are not THAT big a hand full. I did check out the insurance end of this before choosing to build an A and based some of my decision on a higher premium.

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:58 pm

Chad...

Well, ummm... where do I start?

Wicked Stick is paying $1,700 per year for the -4 and one of the 3 owners is a low time newbie TD jock. That ain't bad, really.

I will say it again... build what you WANT!!!

This is the plane of your dreams!!! Build it the way you want it!

CJ

tshort · Post by **tshort** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:41 pm

FWIW, I have about 7 TW hours, 275 or so TT, no instrument or advanced ratings.
I pay 1500/year for insurance on the 170 right now.

I say build what you want. If the premium is a little more for a few years, so be it. Compared to the costs of the engine, etc. it is small potatoes. Once you build time it will decrease.

T.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:31 am

wow! $1700 ain't bad at all! wonder what they are carrying for hull?

the main reason i'm asking about the difference in price, is that around here, most of the TW guys are paying $2200-2500 a year! and, these guys have TW time! i don't know who all of them are insured through, but sheesh, what can i expect!?

i would have expected closer to the number you guys are coming up with. 'course, hull value can GREATLY change the premium. i EXPECT (HOPE, PRAY) that i will have about $65k in mine when done.

if the difference is going to be $2200 vs. $1200 for a nosedragger, i would seriously considering forgoing the TW for $1,000 more flying time!

just me thinking out loud to you guys. i am still planning a TW at this point, but i'll have to make the official choice later this year...

avaviat · Post by **avaviat** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:35 pm

How much more is it worth to have the plane you want?

The difference in insurance will add up to some finite amount over the time you own the plane... probably something like $5000 more all told (though that's based on general research and is totally wrong). Would you pay an extra $5K to get the plane of your dreams? I would.

Of course, I'm building an A.

jim_geo · Post by **jim_geo** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:04 pm

What brought me to my final decision was sitting in an A and seeing what a great view you have on the ground. It really is a very good view over the nose.

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:19 pm

Naaaaahhhh, We don't build a plane for the view from the ground!!!

CJ

bmurrish · Post by **bmurrish** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:06 pm

cjensen wrote: i am still planning a TW at this point, but i'll have to make the official choice later this year...

Chad, you need to decide sooner than later this year if you plan on building the wings. Guys, correct me if I am wrong, but there are different things you have to do during the wing build if it is going to be a TW or NW. I don't have my plans available right now but I think the rear spar was one of them.

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:12 pm

Not that I am aware of. I think he has until the fuse is ordered.

CJ

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:19 pm

that's the way i've always heard it...

bmurrish · Post by **bmurrish** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:19 pm

CJ, take a look at drawing 10A bottom right side. There is a special note for 7/7A builders about cutting away part of the rear spar doubler. My instructions are for a -8 so they don't cover the specifics for the 7s.

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:21 pm

Yup, removing that metal is due to the fact the spars are the same (-7 & -8) and the -7 fuse is wider. Nuttin' to do with the gear config.

CJ

bmurrish · Post by **bmurrish** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:36 pm

Hmmm, I guess I stand corrected. I was always under the impression there was something different in the wings. In that case, take your time deciding Chad

jim_geo · Post by **jim_geo** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:49 am

That was cute John or should I call you Mr. Burns now? At any rate, I'm building the plane I want Ya'll otta too

.

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:52 am

Jim...

CJ

bmurrish · Post by **bmurrish** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:16 am

Mr Burns??? Ouch!!! Did I get burned??? Should I be offended???

prestwich · Post by **prestwich** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:27 am

Bill,

The little wheel placement decision comes much earlier in the build process for the tandem -8 than for the side by side -7, inferring from Van's website.

Jon

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:19 pm

just an update...i've decided that i'm going with my original plan to build a taildragger. i've read as much as i possibly could in the last week or two about the differences, handling, insurance, etc...it's just not worth putting my idea of "dream plane" on the shelf because of perceived difference in the cost of insurance (my main concern). it just won't make enough of a difference to matter, and will go down the second year.

now...ask me about what the h%# i'm going to do about an engine, and you'll get a different answer each day!

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:07 pm

Yeah... good choice!

CJ