Up front or in the back

[Eric]

Greetings,

First post for me so I'll start with a topic that will be sure to draw fire.

I have been churning about building for many years. I am looking hard at an 8A since my only tailwheel time is 1.8 hrs dual in a Citabria. It was fun, I had a ball, (it made me feel like a student again!) but I never went further to get a signoff. All of my other time (just under 500 hrs) has all been nose gear work. I figured that convenience, taxi visability and insurance were good enough reasons to stay with the nose gear. Then I started to read about accidents that point to structural questions, wheel pants clearance issues, routing exhaust in the cowl and nose wheel interference. To top it off I got a ride in an 8 the other day and I liked it. I love grass strips and I want to be able to use them.

Soooo...I would like to hear input from

1. 8A builders/drivers- your experiences/opinions
2. 8 drivers-particularly if you were tailwheel challenged like I am
3. Anyone else with constructive input.

You have quite a site here. Thanks in advance for your time and input. Eric

[dirtmanf800]

Welcome Eric, you will get a response to that question here I don't have any tailwheel time or RV time , so my only comment is that I am planning to build the 9-A. Again welcome aboard

[Spike]

Welcome Eric. Glad to have you join the site!!

As far as where to put the wheel, I think the short answer is put it where you want it. There are pros and cons of each. Im building a 9A also due to reasons like experience, (percieved) safety, and insurance. The tail dragger guys will have counter points (and generaly good ones) for each thing that you bring up. The only thing that stuck out of my mind in your post was that I would not discount the 'A' variants for grass field operations. Other than that, go with what you want to do.

-- Spike

[cjensen]

well, i'm not gonna make an argument out of my post, but i am putting the wheel on the back. i have 1 hour of tailwheel time (in a CAP 10B), but i will do whatever it takes to get the required time. tailwheels are so fun and rewarding. plus, i like a good challenge, and i love how they (RV's) look. i'm building a -7, and these are just my thoughts, no arguments here.



welcome aboard eric!! you'll love it either way, and i agree with spike to put the third wheel where YOU want it!

[Eric]

Thanks for the kind welcome.

I have enjoyed this site, having read a lot of postings for several days. I like what I heard and want to hear more.

Any low time twheel'ers out their that conquered their apprehensions? I could use the encouragement.

Any 8A'ers that can tell me what the challenges are that may lie under the cowl during construction?

I know the 8 is a little cheaper...is it also easier to build? Or is it insignificant.

I am getting close to making a move. I ordered a stack of construction videos and hope to have a case of diet coke at my side and the video remote in hand soon to learn more about what lies ahead.

Thanks all for your support. Fly safe.

Eric

[captain_john]

Hi Eric, thanks for playin'!

The funny thing is, I am building a TW'er for the same reasons Spike is building a nosedragger!

I'm building a 9A also due to reasons like experience, (percieved) safety, and insurance.

I am approaching 50 hours tailwheel time and I expect the insurance to be comparable to the nosedragger rate, mebbe slightly higher if at all. Of course, these things are all relative.

I have the answer for you: Build the plane you want to fly!

I WANT a taildragger!

Nostalgia, looks, grass strip capability, simplicity... did I mention it looks cool and not everyone can fly it are my reasons.

CJ

P.S. Did I mention it is cool? Always a great topic!

BTW, I will always enjoy a nosedragger. It is just that MY RV will be a taildragger.

[cjensen]

CJ and i see eye to eye on this topic. i love the nostalgic look and feel of a taildragger. i frequent grass strips-i love grass runways!! did i mention that they LOOK really cool!!

plus, man do i ever WANT one! i can't overcome that feeling.

as far as an -8 being cheaper, i think it's like $90 diff or something like that, so that's not an issue (if it is, another hobby is neccessary ) it has been said, but not proven that the tailwheel is easier to build. i'm not gonna build both to find out, so this is a tough call for most of us.

see, you'll have fun here!!

[captain_john]

...oh and YAH, one more thing!

The -8 is a WAY HARDER SB Fuse kit! I have seen WS's and MAN... am I glad I am doin' a -Seven! I ain't got THAT in me!

Much less pre-punching and not that it is a big thing, the jig needs some precision in it.

If I were doing a -Eight, it would have a QB Fuse! I would still do SB Wings though!

FWIW...

CJ

[Eric]

Capt. John

Feel free to elaborate. Perhaps I am too ignorant. I was under the impression that the Fuse kit was pre punched. Am I wrong? I was planning on going slow build on the whole project. I think you can enlighten me. Eric

[Eric]

Capt. John

Feel free to elaborate. Perhaps I am too ignorant. I was under the impression that the Fuse kit was pre punched. Am I wrong? I was planning on going slow build on the whole project. I think you can enlighten me. Eric

[cjensen]

i agree with CJ, but i can only go off of what i've heard, which is the same thing-harder SB fuse.

i'm SB all the way with my -7. i'm lovin' the building process so far!

[captain_john]

OK, the -8 was designed long before the -7. What this means to you is the -7 is an easier Fuse kit to assemble because of a more extensive pre-punched design.

Do not let this TOTALLY influence your decision on which kit to assemble! Build the plane you WANT to FLY! The -8 SB is CERTAINLY within reach of the average homebuilder! Personally, I WANT the panel space and CRM ability of the side by side variant.

The -8 needs a jig. A jig is nothing more than a customized workbench that is built to some specs. Nothing more! The -7 can be (and usually is) assembled on saw horses. Me, I may build some type of jig because I have no saw horses and the space to make a jig. The jig I may end up making will be nothing more than custom saw horses.

CJ

[steveashby]

Hi Eric,

I am also a newbie, but I have a point of view on this topic. I just started building an 8A last june. I am almost finished with the empenage and the wing kit is scheduled to ship on Oct. 15.

First of all, you will have a blast building. It is great fun. Much of the stress is relieved when you have all of the parts and good instructions.

I selected an 8A for several reasons. First, there is no doubt that a nosegear aircraft is easier to taxi and land. Check out the insurance rates. A tail dragger will cost you considerably more to insure, especially if you are not a high time taildragger pilot. Second, the 8A is easier to build. The 8's main gear boxes are difficult to fabricate and intrude into cockpit space more than the 8A. Finally, I think the 8A just looks better, but that is totally subjective. Some people think the 8 looks like a P-51 Mustang, but that is their thing.

The only drawback to the 8A is that it is supposed to be a knot or two slower than the 8. That is not that big a deal. It certainly will not sound like much of a justification when you taxi into that odd landing light or drop into that hole you did not see because you are peddling a tail dragger. Besides, as the folks at Vans say, when you are in the cockpit flying it, you can't tell the difference.

My advice is to just select one of the RVs (all of them are great) and start building. It took me 10 years to finally order a tail kit and I am kicking myself for waiting so long to have so much fun.
Steve

[Eric]

Thanks for that perspective Steve!

I have been "Circling" the Vans tent every year at OSH for about 8 years and I can't get it out of my mind. This year I have been grinding it through my head a lot and I recently found a local 8 flier that gave me a ride and answered a lot of questions. The ride did NOT make me want to walk away.

I have a lot of obsticals... I am not an engineer or otherwise highly skilled (never build much other than shop cabinets) I have a very small work space in the house...but I am thinking that that may change down the road. Like you, I keep thinking that every year I wait is a year lost. I am of the mid set right now that there will never be a perfect time...I just know that I will never finish one if I don't start.

I spent some time today reorganizing my small work shop trying to see what would fit. Maybe you can help me. I would like to know the minimum bench length I would need to do the empenage. what is the tip to tip dimension of the HS when assembled, I did not see it on Van's website.

I have just about all of the tools with a couple of exceptions and if I can get the shop thing figured out and settle in on the configuration...

Thanks again for your thoughts.

For everyone's information I stumbled onto this site a few days ago and I find it very helpful. I think I have read every post. Good luck to all the builders, flyers and dreamers. Eric

[Eric]

Thanks for that perspective Steve!

I have been "Circling" the Vans tent every year at OSH for about 8 years and I can't get it out of my mind. This year I have been grinding it through my head a lot and I recently found a local 8 flier that gave me a ride and answered a lot of questions. The ride did NOT make me want to walk away.

I have a lot of obsticals... I am not an engineer or otherwise highly skilled (never build much other than shop cabinets) I have a very small work space in the house...but I am thinking that that may change down the road. Like you, I keep thinking that every year I wait is a year lost. I am of the mid set right now that there will never be a perfect time...I just know that I will never finish one if I don't start.

I spent some time today reorganizing my small work shop trying to see what would fit. Maybe you can help me. I would like to know the minimum bench length I would need to do the empenage. what is the tip to tip dimension of the HS when assembled, I did not see it on Van's website.

I have just about all of the tools with a couple of exceptions and if I can get the shop thing figured out and settle in on the configuration...

Thanks again for your thoughts.

For everyone's information I stumbled onto this site a few days ago and I find it very helpful. I think I have read every post. Good luck to all the builders, flyers and dreamers. Eric

[captain_john]

Eric, make 2 of these benches and cover them with carpet. Substitute the plywood tops with MDF boards and you will be much happier!

http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/work ... blefig.htm

CJ

[cjensen]

the HS is right around 8 feet when completed. i used a really dense board as my top. i don't remember what it's called, but it's compressed particle board with nice, smooth white laminate finish on both sides. it measures 49x97". that's more than you need to complete the emp. the eaa tables work very well, as they should. that's what most people use.

[cjensen]

eric, for some reason, most of your posts are showing up twice about three minutes apart???

[steveashby]

Eric,

Just do it. Beg, borrow or sell a kid for $1,800 (tag, tax, title, etc.) and send off for a tail kit. Some people have built these things in closets. You will need a work table about 3' by 8'. That should be a gracious plenty, although mine is 16' long (you can never have too much room). You can build it out of 2x4's and 3/4" mdf for the top. Just build a box. It is straight and strong. Many people use carpet scraps for the top, but I think I have a better idea. Go to the RV construction section of Walmart and purchase 2 plastic grass door mats ($3 a piece). They will protect your skins while you drill, debur, dimple and rivet (the four big tasks) and it will not be difficult to get aluminum shavings out of them (like carpet).

If money is a challenge (and it is to everybody) then buy the tail kit and take your own sweet time constructing it while saving for the wing kit. Construction is really enjoyable if you take your time and don't rush things. It sounds like you are already set for tools. If you don't have one, a pneumatic rivet squeezer/dimpler is worth its weight in gold. It is worth the $500 if you are building an entire airplane. If you can't spring for it, the manual Avery or Cleveland squeezers work just fine and build character (as well as biceps).

Welcome to the family. I am certain that I will see you with the other builders soon.
Steve

[cjensen]

i can second steve's assertion that the pneumatic squeezer is worth it's weight in gold. i am a recent (like three weeks ago) pneu squeeze buyer, and it should have been one of my first purchases. it really saves a lot (time, muscle, callus', blisters, etc...), and is more consistent than your average bear.

and...just do it!! you'll never regret it! but don't let us tell you what to do...