Aileron Brackets - bolts won't fit inside

BSwayze · Post by **BSwayze** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:31 pm

I finally finished my ailerons, but I have a problem with the brackets that bolt on to each end. Part numbers: A-407R and A-407L, and two brackets A-406-1.

The plans call for AN3-4A bolts and washers to hold these brackets to the ailerons. Here's the problem: the bracket seems to be too narrow, and the inside bottom of the bracket too curved to allow the washer under the bolt head to sit flat. If I force it and torque it down, the washer will either deform, the bracket will deform, and the powder coating will scratch deeply. Even then, I don't think it will seat all the way down. I don't see how I can get a socket head or wrench down over the bolt head either.

Here's a picture of one of the A-406-1 brackets. The other one is just like this. The wider brackets, A-407 R and L also have this issue, but not nearly as bad as this one.

Did any of you guys run into this? Any ideas? I wrote to Van's and one of the engineers wrote:

"As for the aileron brackets, we wish they were flat, but our vendor can't seem to get them that way. File or grind flats on the washer and if necessary larger flats on the bolt also. That will get the fasteners to seat fully in the bracket. You will tighten the nuts, not the bolts, so wrench clearance is not an issue."

I'm not sure how grinding the washer will help much. Even with no washer, the bolt head won't seat all the way down. Thanks for any suggestions.[/img]

weezbad · Post by **weezbad** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:43 pm

wow that is pretty bad. i would send vans that photo. there is no way that can be ok. the washer as you well know or you wouldnt be asking, must sit flat. send the pic to vans then follow up with a call.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:48 pm

Yeah, send them that pic. Mine weren't flat, but they were not that rounded either...that's a bad bend.

BSwayze · Post by **BSwayze** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:47 pm

Thanks, guys... I did send them the picture. The picture I posted here is the one I sent to them with the letter I wrote. The response I got is the one I quoted above. I was surprised. That's why I thought I would check with the group and see how your brackets were that came in your kits. I don't know if mine are typical or unusually bad, or how all of you handled it.

I was hoping they would offer to replace these but maybe they don't have any that are any better than this.

weezbad · Post by **weezbad** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:00 am

ok guess i wasnt paying attention. (being so over whelmed at the apparent lack of q/c on vans part i jumped on to say no way )i re-read the post and i call b/s on vans. i can see grinding the washers a bit and i did do that to mine but that will never seat in the bracket...were talking flight controls here. if they say theres nothing wrong with them, order a new set and when you get them send them this set back. that aint gonna fly. maybe they forgot it is a self locking nut so the bolt has to at least be held for tightening. which i think i wedged a screw driver in ther for that.

i will look again at mine when i get home today and see just how much fitting i did..

Brantel · Post by **Brantel** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:30 am

I agree, press them for new ones. Mine were no where near that bad.

If you demand new ones, they will send them.

If there vendor would get enough of these back as bad, they would quickly figure out how to make a proper tool to bend these.

Post by **bullojm1** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:34 am

Brantel wrote: If you demand new ones, they will send them.

Oh yeah.......I just found out yesterday how easy it was to deal with getting a new part that was screwed up to begin with. I mounted my tire the other day only to find a HUGE gash across it - like someone nicked it with a knife. I called up Van's and no questions asked got a new one shipped free. It couldn't of been easier.

And a little off topic, but while talking to Vans, I also found out they no longer have a $4 handing fee! I guess they just marked up everything (well, I know they did...altimeters went from $250 to $325 over the last few months

)

weezbad · Post by **weezbad** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:26 pm

looked at mine and found the washer on the nut side as it should be. but it seems there is a raised portion in the center of the bracket to insure no interference with the sides...YMMV

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:33 pm

Jeez Weez!! You been storing that in the mud???

weezbad · Post by **weezbad** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:05 pm

spider webs run rampant in my shop...watch out for those black widows....
i knew some of you neat freaks would have a field day with that.

i almost cleaned it off but said "aw man #$#% that"

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:41 pm

weezbad wrote: i knew some of you neat freaks would have a field day with that.
i almost cleaned it off but said "aw man #$#% that"

I had to say SOMETHING!

BSwayze · Post by **BSwayze** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:04 am

My thanks to you guys for taking some time to help, THANKS! Especially to you, Weez, for taking the time to dig your aileron out of the cobwebs and take a picture for me. That was really going the extra mile... thanks! I owe you a cold one.

After writing to my tech counselor, Randy Lervold, I took his suggestion and removed the washer. Then, after studying the plans again, I realized that the washer shouldn't have been under the bolt head anyway. So I ended up doing what the guy at Vans told me, grinding a tiny bit off the edges of the bolt head. The result: it fits great! So this turned out be almost a non-event. Like many things I have found in this project, you worry and fret and stew over something only to find out it's a non-event. Lesson learned... study the freakin' plans!

And, have a little more respect for the guys at Vans. They've built more airplanes than I have.

Here's a shot of one of the bolts after grinding and polishing it a bit on my scotchbrite wheel. The one on the right is untouched, for comparison. You can see how little grinding it took.

Here's the excellent fit that resulted:

Here's the bracket, bolted on to the aileron.

And finally, here are my finished ailerons, mounted on the wings!

weezbad · Post by **weezbad** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:46 am

i am glad you got it resolved. but yours are definately made differently that mine.. what is your kit # mine is 71421...and before chad gives me crap for not being done yet with that builder #, im workig on it

man its 98 deg. here and about 98 % relative humidity.

man i dont know what im thinking you have to be later than me in the build # it must be the heat and the price of gas making me loose my mind.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:10 am

weezbad wrote:...and before chad gives me crap for not being done yet with that builder #, im workig on it man its 98 deg. here and about 98 % relative humidity.

I would never to that!

weezbad wrote:it must be the heat and the price of gas making me loose my mind.

It's making ALL of us LOOSE OUR MINDS!

Brantel · Post by **Brantel** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:25 am

weezbad wrote: kit # mine is 71421...and before chad gives me crap for not being done yet with that builder #, im workig on it :

My original # is 25926 (converted a 6 emp to the 7 when it came out) so Chad can leave you alone and pick on me...

Everytime someone tells me my kit is going together fast, I laugh concidering that I started it 9 years ago or something like that, it seems pretty slow to me

BSwayze · Post by **BSwayze** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:19 am

weezbad wrote: yours are definately made differently that mine.. what is your kit # mine is 71421...

My kit # is 72980. I started on my empennage about a year-and-a-half ago, in Jan. 2007. I picked up my wing kit last summer in mid-June. Sometimes it feels like I'm going slower than anyone, because I have so much going on around here. I had hoped to get my wings finished by the end of the year. Not that it matters. Like others have said, it's not a race.

man its 98 deg. here and about 98 % relative humidity.

Hey Weez... send some of that over here, will ya? It's in the high 40's and raining here, and I'm wondering if spring will ever come, let alone summer. We've had one warm weekend this whole year. Everyone has been saying how we could use a little global warming around here.

weezbad · Post by **weezbad** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:02 pm

BSwayze wrote:
weezbad wrote: yours are definately made differently that mine.. what is your kit # mine is 71421...
My kit # is 72980. I started on my empennage about a year-and-a-half ago, in Jan. 2007. I picked up my wing kit last summer in mid-June. Sometimes it feels like I'm going slower than anyone, because I have so much going on around here. I had hoped to get my wings finished by the end of the year. Not that it matters. Like others have said, it's not a race.

man its 98 deg. here and about 98 % relative humidity.
Hey Weez... send some of that over here, will ya? It's in the high 40's and raining here, and I'm wondering if spring will ever come, let alone summer. We've had one warm weekend this whole year. Everyone has been saying how we could use a little global warming around here.

B, you can have all you want, 40 deg is my comfort zone. 1 tee shirt, one long sleeve, and single layer pants..its purrrrrfect if im working

my shirt is soaked in about 10 minutes at this rate. my wife always complains because i like to ride with the windows down most of the year...hate the heater..wants dual zone climate control in the next new vehicle.

as far as brantel goes, i may slow down some more just to keep things in order.

....

scratch that i already work at a snails pace.

tmbg · Post by **tmbg** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:27 pm

BSwayze wrote:
weezbad wrote: yours are definately made differently that mine.. what is your kit # mine is 71421...
My kit # is 72980. I started on my empennage about a year-and-a-half ago, in Jan. 2007. I picked up my wing kit last summer in mid-June. Sometimes it feels like I'm going slower than anyone, because I have so much going on around here. I had hoped to get my wings finished by the end of the year. Not that it matters. Like others have said, it's not a race.

man its 98 deg. here and about 98 % relative humidity.
Hey Weez... send some of that over here, will ya? It's in the high 40's and raining here, and I'm wondering if spring will ever come, let alone summer. We've had one warm weekend this whole year. Everyone has been saying how we could use a little global warming around here.

I'm 73005, so I started RIGHT after you did. February of '07. I have a couple more tasks before I can store the wings, and I've already started on some of the simpler fuselage stuff. All my bulkheads are done.

I slacked pretty hard for a few months, but I've been back into it lately

BSwayze · Post by **BSwayze** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:52 pm

tmbg wrote:I'm 73005, so I started RIGHT after you did. February of '07. I have a couple more tasks before I can store the wings, and I've already started on some of the simpler fuselage stuff. All my bulkheads are done.

I slacked pretty hard for a few months, but I've been back into it lately

Ian, that's great... you're definitely a bit ahead of me at this point. Although I do have some of the fiberglass work on the empennage done. My fiance has been keeping me very busy with huney-do's because we're getting married in two weeks. But after that, I hope to pick up the pace again. At least I have my fuse kit here. I have to build my flaps and the control pushrods, do the internal "plumbing", then I'm done with my wings. I'm not going to rivet my bottom skins on until I make up my mind about an auto-pilot, because I want to install the servo brackets first. I'm debating between the Trio and the Tru-Trak. I know it can be done later, but why not wait to rivet the skins on... it will be much easier.

I'm also trying to put a web site together... if I can ever get it online... I have most all the wing pages finished already. I've never done it before, so that's a whole 'nuther learning curve and a project in itself. But heck... it's all fun, right?