Winds

tshort · Post by **tshort** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:23 pm

What are people's general comfort level with surface winds?

I am sitting in the FBO at KBIE ... winds 20's gusting to 30+, about 40deg off the runway. This is one of those days that I would not fly just for fun (maybe with a CFI for practice). I freely admit it makes me nervous - even in a nosedragger.

I'm waiting another hour or so so that I can time my arrival into Indy to coincide with the calmer winds in the evening (right now they're 250 @21g26 - no way I'm gonna try a landing on rwy 33 at home!). My plan is that if they don't diminish I'll park the plane at KMQJ (rwy25) and leave it until a better time. I don't figure that trying a x-wind landing like that after a full day of x-c flying is a good idea. The landing here at BIE was challenge enough - although not as bad as I expected. I was a little surprised when I stepped out of the plane and felt the wind!

T.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:38 pm

Depends on what I'm flying.

Generally, winds don't bother me in the least. I just deal with whatever I get. Now, if I'm in the two seat Diamond, today's winds are little stiff, and I wouldn't go fly for fun in it. However, in about an hour, I am delivering a TB-20 Trinidad to Bloomington, Indiana, and their winds are just like they are here 20g30. The TB-20 max x-wind component is 25knots. I won't be any where near that with the runway over there. Unless it's a direct 90 degree x-wind, there isn't much I wouldn't fly in in this airplane because most of the time, the component will be way less than 25kts.

Now, this will all change with the RV TW airplane!

Calm to start, and we'll go from there...

Post by **Spike** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:43 pm

Thats a little more than I would fly in. Gusting into the 20's possibly, depending on direction. Gusting into the 30's, not me.

-- John

Post by **Spike** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:45 pm

cjensen wrote: However, in about an hour, I am delivering a TB-20 Trinidad to Bloomington, Indiana, and their winds are just like they are here 20g30.

Youd be hard pressed to run out of rudder on that Trinny. Its the size of Texas. So, someone bought it 'eh? What did it go for?

- John

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:51 pm

Nope. I'm just taking it (via Ferry permit) over to get an annual done on it. They do their own maintenance there. BMG is where the airplane's home is. I'll get it back in a coupla weeks.

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:11 pm

I know we all have. I know we all can. I know it isn't comfortable.

I suppose I wouldn't look up at the sky and WANT to go flying, but if I had a day planned, plane all booked and and cocked, locked and ready to rock... I'd go. Hell, I HAVE!

That was the conditions the day I took the Citabria to Maine that I wrote about in that story on the other thread that you may recall.

I guess the answer is, definately maybe!

CJ

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:44 pm

The great thing about flying east with these winds are your ground speeds!! I saw 237mph over the ground this afternoon in the Trinidad!!

jim_geo · Post by **jim_geo** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:47 pm

That's a big wind. Personally I wouldn't do it with those numbers. On the other hand I fly to enjoy and sight see. When first I got my 152 and was bringing it home from Texas I spent quite a bit of time on the ground waiting for winds to calm. I happened to start talking to a crusty ol' guy at an FBO and told him what I was doing. He told me “It's an AIRplane it don't care about the wind”. Made sense to me and since the winds weren't giving me an out of reason cross wind component I left. He was right the plane didn't gives two cents about the wind.

tshort · Post by **tshort** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:05 pm

Today was a great learning experience and a good confidence builder.

I have several thoughts. One, the demonstrated x-wind component is just that - the max that the test pilots had the opportunity to test the plane in during certification. The true capability of the plane may be much more (or not!)

Once you've used up all the rudder (or aileron) it is time to find a better aligned runway. I think this is where the real danger lies with respect to gusty winds like today's ... that gust could push you over the edge. Additionally, I don't care if you are the world's greatest pilot, I think that in a light airplane with winds gusting into the 30's (regardless of runway alignment) there are times where the gust can lead to a situation that may not be salvageable - whether due to lack of enough power (big gust in flare leads to balloon, then gust dies and you come down ... fast) or not enough control authority. You have to be on your toes and be willing to go around on a moment's notice.

Plus, does anyone know how insurance companies feel about accidents when you were flying in a x-wind more than the "demonstrated" x-wind? Probably not RV related, but I'm curious...

T.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:38 pm

tshort wrote:You have to be on your toes and be willing to go around on a moment's notice.

T.

That is the key. No landing is ever assured, and a go around HAS to be on your mind during any landing, but it needs to be at the forefront of your brain when the winds are gusty.

I sort of lucked out today...the winds were blowing 19G25 when I was 20 miles out from 260 degrees. When I got there, they were 230 at 13, and they gave me RWY 24. Took the pucker factor right out of the equation! Especially when the three airplanes that landed before me got RWY 17.

svanarts · Post by **svanarts** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:39 am

Those are pretty standard winds here in the Central Valley in the summer afternoons. As soon as the sun starts to get just above the horizon they start to die down. Mostly it's 15G25, but 25G35 is not uncommon. Usually a right quartering crosswind. In my Champ it was doable but like you say it was a lot of work. More work than I really wanted to do for a pleasure flight. In the RV-4 (TAILWHEEL) I have not found either of these winds to be very hard work. There is ample rudder and they are slippery enough that crosswinds aren't too much of a challenge.

The worst I've landed in the RV-4 was when a storm was blowing through and I went out for a little crosswind practice. I got off the ground fine but it took 2 or 3 tries to get back down! We had the normal quartering crosswind when I took off but by the time I had gone around the pattern it had changed to a consistent 90 deg crosswind at about a sustained 35 kts. Even at that the RV-4 was only at a 45 deg angle to the runway and I was able to align with the centerline. I didn't land on it but I was aligned with it.

I would probably not fly in those conditions again though.

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:59 pm

35 knots @ 90 degrees...

Doesn't get much more manly than that!

THAT my friend, is a logbook entry!

...TD or ND!

CJ

svanarts · Post by **svanarts** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:00 am

Slightly less manly at 25 kts. Typo. Sorry.

Womack2005 · Post by **Womack2005** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:25 am

Saturday I launched out of OSH in the Archer with 20 gusting to 29 at 40 degrees relative. Winds aloft were awesome at 9500ft over lake Michigan I had 167 knots ground speed! That is a record for me in that airplane with four on board. I made it to FPK in less than an hour and a half! Another record. But yesterday coming back it took me forever just to get across the lake. 30 knot headwind.

Anyway, landing at FPK I had 30 knot at 50 degree relative. Cakewalk. I love crosswind landings

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:22 pm

Holy CR@P!

The winds wouldn't bother me on that trip... it would be the 100 or so miles across open water that would pucker my spinchter!

I skirted the Chicago airspace at 9,500 close to shore in the Cherokee Six on my return from OSH 2 years ago and considered myself daring!

I tremble in your presence, Will!

CJ

Womack2005 · Post by **Womack2005** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:47 am

CJ, its only 50 miles across from Manitowoc to Ludington and thats where I cross. That leaves (depending on winds) a ~15 mile gap in the middle where you can't reach either shore if you have an engine failure.

I also file a 'lake reporting' flight plan and I have flight following. With the lake reporting you have to call in every ten minutes to report 'high and dry' or they launch the Coast Gaurd

l & d lewis · Post by **l & d lewis** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:19 pm

One point everyone is missing is taxiing in strong winds. The airplane is reasonably controlable until the wheels are firmly planted. I had the opportunity to talk to two Cessna 207 pilots last spring, who 1 week apart, were taxiing their airplanes in 35 knot gusts. Both planes were turned to quartering tailwinds, and both airplanes ended up upside down on the ramp. One was taxiing for takeoff and the other was taxiing from landing. A lot of pilots either don't take seriously, or forget basic taxi training...........Larry