A little frustrated with Van's today...

[cjensen]

I was totally expecting ABF to call today to arrange delivery of my fuselage kit. No call as of noon CST, so I called Van's to check up on the shipment. A little background...I had talked to them back on the 4th or 5th about shipping, and we had worked it out to ship it on or after the 10th so it would arrive after I returned from my trip to Minnesota. They said it would be here the 16th or 17th. Fast forward to today...While talking with the nice lady (Barb) on the other end of the country, I was informed that my fuselage kit was sitting on their hanger floor. They have one of the main skins out of stock, and no material to make them right now. No one called to tell me this. I wonder if I hadn't called, would they have called me? Anyway, I told them to go ahead and ship everything else so I could get to work, and they would send the backordered skin ASAP after they have material again via UPS. So, while I was planning on inventorying my kit this weekend, it looks like I'm outta luck this week.

Back to watching TV, or working on some house project...

[smithhb]

Since the -7 and the -9 have virtually the same fuselage, I wonder if this backorder will hold up my -9 delivery????

[cjensen]

Since the -7 and the -9 have virtually the same fuselage, I wonder if this backorder will hold up my -9 delivery????

May want to call 'em to find out.

[captain_john]

Well, it IS the holiday!

Seriously, they aren't the best with customer service related contact stuff.

I know you have heard this before and it is of little consequence, really.

Consider my fuse shipment one year ago. They shipped me a dented tailcone skin!



Maybe it is the one you need!?!



Ahhhh, you don't want a dented one anyways...

It'll come, Chad. In the meanwhile, come on over here and help me!

CJ

[cjensen]

It'll come, Chad. In the meanwhile, come on over here and help me!

CJ

Yeah, I know. Just wish they would've called when they knew it wasn't going to ship when they said it would. Not a big deal, really. I was just REALLY looking forward to getting started again this week.

I'm on my way, CJ.

[Spike]

I have many mixed opinions concerning Vans Aircraft. However, considering that some of those come from some non-positive experiences directly related to RB, I have a tendancy to keep them to myself.

However, as a retail company, I think Vans has some customer service/retail issues that need to be addressed. Obviously, its not my company and I don't have visibility into it, so that is only my opinion. However, it is one that I have obtained by being a customer of theirs, something that in and of itself should lend some importance to those opinions.

I believe that it really is necessary for a company to be proactive in its customer interactions specifically with respect to order fulfillment/tracking, consistency, & generally affableness. I don't feel that Vans does a good job with these, specifically the latter two.

I get the feeling that there are two types of clientele with respect to the organization, those that are on the "in", and those who are merely customers. Ive also had some exchanges with their personnel that were nothing but down right rude.

The first Osh I attended I was seriously considering building an RV. I specifically went to the booth, checked one out, and politely asked one of the workers (dont know who it was, I didnt know any of the staff at that point) if I could sit in one of the demo planes. His response was a simple and curt "If you can get into it." WTH does that mean? Im not a small guy so how do I take that? I was so ticked off that I wrote them off of my list and it took me 2 years before I considered an RV again. Ive since had some interactions that I consider to be very presumptious toward customers and those in the "community" of RV builders.

I sincerely hope that they are able to improve in some of these areas. Vans has some of the best kit product available, and I think they know it, however, people skills are a very large, and growing aspect of homebuilding. I think Van would do very well to hire someone specifically for the purpose of marketing & customer relations.


- Spike

[tshort]

Look at the bright side ... plenty of time to watch the Colts beat the crap out of the Patriots on Sunday!!

Thomas

[cjensen]

Look at the bright side ... plenty of time to watch the Colts beat the crap out of the Patriots on Sunday!!

Thomas

If only I were a football fan...

I am starting my tailwheel training this weekend though!!! Yes, I am going to drink the taildragger kool-aid!

I imagine I'll be doing this after the first lesson or two though...

[Rockyjs]

If it wasn't for the builders here and at the shows, I would have never gotten an RV. The personnel from Vans were bordering on rude. I will say that I have had a positive experience with the ladies Anne and Barb at Vans.
CJ when did you order and do you have an estimated delivery of your finishing kit. On the tipup there's a channel bracket in the finishing kit that gets mounted to the sub panel up front. Makes absolutely no sense for it not to be in the fuselage kit. I guess they make up for it by giving you the rear canopy channels with the fuselage kit.

[captain_john]

Rocky,

I ordered just after Thanksgiving. Kinda quick turn around, really. Machine Man is getting his entire QB Kit in about a couple of months!

As far as Vans' Customer Service... it lacks personality.

When someone (and it could be be the Sportsman 2+2) comes forward with a solid product, good marketing techniques and peole that really make the company shine, Van WILL HAVE TO step things up! Someone will come in and eat their lunch if they aren't careful!

Until then, they can be as crude and crass as they like! The product is the appeal, not the company.

I have dealt with FAR WORSE companues, but when you are shelling out twenty (or more) large, you want a little polish on your deal!

...and I am not a football fan, but HOWZABOUT THEM PATS!!!

CJ

[Spike]

In for a penny, in for a pound 'eh? There has been more than one time that I thought about bailing on this RV thing because of the above mentioned factors. An awfully good airplane and an awfully large amount of money to walk away from though *snicker*

By the time you are educated it could be too late.

[jim_geo]

John, I am so glad that you shared with us how rude some of the people at Vans' are. I thought perhaps it was just me. No kidding there have been times that I've walked into their lobby and gotten the distinct impression that I was the flea on my dogs butt. I wont go into detail but I have come to learn with whom I do and do not want to deal with. Most of the behind the scenes personnel are pretty well on it with customer relations and Tom their CEO is a pretty nice guy but several of the engineering and professional aviation oriented staff suck about 90% of the time. This condition has gotten to the point that I don't even want to talk to the tech support folks (no wonder there are so many web sites......THEY GET USED!!!!). But there are also a few things worth remembering, and I do cut some slack in the face of this. A couple of times when visiting Vans' lobby I have had to share that space with a few clients of theirs that were some of the most disagreeable, rude, spoiled little snot nosed, acting like children adult customers that I have ever seen in my life. It was an embarrassment to be in the same room as them. This is not to excuse the folks at Vans', Vans' employees need to respect each of us until we prove unworthy of it. They at Vans' certainly do give the impression of being a big fish in a small pond. To the end of better service to those of us that make their lives possible I suggest for the folks at Vans' less coffee or way more Lithium (I'm not kidding). Another area of concern for everyone is back orders. I have come to realize that if you don't stay on them they don't follow through on them. So stay on top of any that are created even if they are rude to you and don't go out of your way to create them. I had a hell of a time getting parts from two back orders that were created at two different times.

[tshort]

Dang, I was hoping for a little more response from some of the New Englanders out there!

I have a had a decent experience with Van's, but I haven't really called them on the phone much. There is one guy in tech support who is just plain rude and shouldn't even answer the phone - he is generally that unhelpful.

As you guys mentioned, their product sells itself. Right or not, they don't really need marketing.

I am a little surprised, though - it seems like Van himself is a pretty laid back, personable guy ... I'm surprised he tolerates that from his employees.

T.

[jim_geo]

Van is an interesting person.
I've seen him several times. I've seen him at least three times walking through the office and once standing in front of video cameras being interviewed. Here's the news, he doesn't run his buisiness, other people run his business. He designs, builds and flys airplanes, Guess what, that's why he has his business. That's also why you will never talk to Van on the phone when you need a question answered. Don't let Vans' (the company) ruin the fun you're having building an aircraft. Someday when people ask you how you liked your experience tell the truth. The plane was great to build but help from the company itself could be better. Stay tuned next week we'll all be talking to someone in India for tech support .

[captain_john]

All true, but I WOULD BUILD ANOTHER ONE... in case any fence sitters are reading this.

The product is THAT GOOD!

Their corporate personna isn't enough to sway me away from dropping another nut on their stuff.

CJ

[RVNewsletter]

I wrote quite a bit about Van's after Oshkosh; not often complimentary. Suffice it to say: put your helmet on because......incoming!!!! There are some very cult-like reactions out there when this subject ocmes up.

As for delivery. I always plan for 2 weeks from when Van's says they'll ship something to when I get it. I admit, however, I call the ABF tracking number every few hours after I get it....to hear the little automated voice say the item is in transit in.... Portland.....Casper, Wyoming..... Minneapolis....etc.

Now what's all this talk about Chad taking a trip to Minnesota?

[cjensen]

All true, but I WOULD BUILD ANOTHER ONE... in case any fence sitters are reading this.

The product is THAT GOOD!

Their corporate personna isn't enough to sway me away from dropping another nut on their stuff.

CJ

I agree wholeheartedly with you CJ. It IS THAT GOOD, and I WOULD build another. Just roll with the punches, and end up with a really GREAT airplane in the end.

[cjensen]

<snip>

Now what's all this talk about Chad taking a trip to Minnesota?

Hey Bob! Yep, I was in Rochester for three days last week in our King Air. I'll also be in Minneapolis on February 7th at ANE for the day.

[RVNewsletter]

Shoot, I'm heading back to Mass. on the 7th. Would've loved to grab some lunch. Next time, maybe.

[Spike]

I wrote quite a bit about Van's after Oshkosh; not often complimentary. Suffice it to say: put your helmet on because......incoming!!!! There are some very cult-like reactions out there when this subject ocmes up.

Let it come. I dont mind differing opinions. Heck, lets discuss them, thats why we are here. It could be enlightening to hear different perspectives.

I agree with your observation of "cult-like" reactions, there is a very cult-like following of the RV phenomena. What I feel hurts the RV building community though is when that love of the aircraft and things so associated becomes a "Vans Aircraft can do no wrong" or "these are the only aircraft in the world to own" mentality. That can (and IMO) has started to turn into an outward facing elitism, or at least, a perception of one. I hope that we as a group don't alienate ourselves from those who choose to fly production aircraft, or more importantly, from those who chose to build "other" aircraft. The RV series are widely agreed upon to be one of the best aircraft out there, but in the end, its just an airplane.

To get this back on track with the original topic of the company itself, I think its easy to lose track of the P's & Q's with the following and business that Van has imagined to generate. I say good for him on what they accomplish, I think though that this success is in and of itself the enabler of what is in my opinion lacking customer relations.