DuPont & Nason PRIMERS!

[captain_john]

Hey All,

Here is a tid bit for ya! As you may already know, I have grown to be a strong supporter of the DuPont line of products. I recently tried their commercial line of products named Nason on my JEEP bumper and was thrilled!

Well not long ago I picked up a quart of Nason 491-17 self etch primer. I really expected it to be the same product as the VariPrime, except in a different package. It seems that I was WRONG!

The datasheets read similarly. Both have 8 hour pot lives, a 1:1 mix with thier respective reducers and are self etching. That is about where the similarities end.

The DuPont VariPrime mixes EASILY! Give it a shake, then a stir and you are ready to pour. When it is reduced and the converter is mixed in it is the consistency of milk and sprays like laquer thinner alone! It cures almost immediately and has virtually NO time from contact to flash!

The Nason 491-17 is LOADED with SOLIDS! It needs to be stirred, stirred and STIRRED AGAIN! This isn't a bad thing, unless you are in a hurry or do lots of small batches. We do alot of small batches sometimes. Other times we do big skins. Deal with it. Once mixed with it's respective reducer, it is almost as thin as VariPrime. It takes about 5 minutes to flash off so that parts can be turned and the other side can be coated. It is CHEAPER and that is a good thing! The Nason has better contrast and you can see what you are shooting better and as a result, I think I am going too heavy. They both have the same .7 or so mil thickness recommendation.

The VariPrime was about $100 per gallon and the converter was about $40 per gallon.

The Nason was about $40 for 1 quart of product AND converter! I suspect that per gallon pricing would be even better.

Conclusion:

I plan to buy some VariPrime for the small batch stuff and use the Nason up on the "skin-teriors" where I will be shooting LOTS of product at a whack!

Give it a try!

CJ

[Womack2005]

CJ, I went down the same road when I first picked a primer. VeriPrime is not even close to Nason. Different stuff all together. Different ingredients. I can't remember if the Nason even has any zinc in it?

Anyway, you get what ya pay for I guess. I have been using the VeriPrime for the majority of the aircraft so far.

[RV7Factory]

Here's a little tip if you have primers with solids that need a lot of mixing. This isn't directed at you CJ, but anyone needing to stir high-solids primers.

Get yourself small mixing paddle or make one from 1/8" steel rod and chuck it into your drill press at low speed. You can then put the can of primer on the drill press table (secure it) and mix away while you are doing other things.

[captain_john]

Good idea, Brad!

What do you put on the end of the rod?

I was thinking about all thread with washers on the end.

CJ

[RV7Factory]

Sorry... bend it into a triangle, square or whatever shape you think will make the best mixer.

[svanarts]

My local ACE hardware sells a paint stirrer that you chuck into a drill for about $2. Has little plastic props on the end to really get the paint moving.

[captain_john]

UPDATE!

Tonight I am in the shop shooting the interiors of the tailcone.

The Nason primer mixes up REAL nice when you intermittently shake it before you have to use it!

Hmmmmm, mebbe I will forget about getting more variprime?

Dunno yet. Need a durability test now!

I DO like the smooth finish of the Nason, though!

More to come! Stay tuned!

CJ

[Womack2005]

The Nason doesn't have any zinc chromate in it does it. That is the biggy - that is what gives you the corosion protection Veriprime is loaded with it.

[captain_john]

Will, there are 2 kinds of Nason Self Etch stuff.

Chrome free and NOT!

I am not using the NOT!

Thanks for the heads up!

CJ

[prestwich]

Careful with those double negatives, CJ. Or is that a triple negative? If you're not using the not chromate-free, then you're using the chromate-free, which means, well, you ain't using chromate! But all this silly "corrosion protection" is why yuse guys need extra power to lift those overweight birds off the ground, anyway.

[captain_john]

P-wich, Yah... out here in New England, our planes look terrible if not coated on the inside.

I was looking around the inside of an old Beech at the FBO a few weeks ago and was ASTONISHED with what I had seen! The corrosion (to say nothing of the workmanship) of an old repair was TERRIBLE!

It just cemented my commitment to coating the interior components even at the cost of a few pounds.

CJ

[az_gila]

The Nason doesn't have any zinc chromate in it does it. That is the biggy - that is what gives you the corosion protection Veriprime is loaded with it.

Not quite... if you check the MSDS - it has 10% Zinc Chromate in it...

This is for the 491-17 part number mentioned above...

"491-17 Butylated phenol-formaldehyde resin, Carbon black(0.1%), Ethyl alcohol, Methyl ethyl ketone, Methyl isobutyl ketone(12%*@), N-butyl alcohol(9%*), Polyvinyl butyral resin, Titanium dioxide(3.5%), Zinc
chromate(10.1%*@)"

The on-line MSDS file is always a good reference on the contents...

gil in Tucson

[painless]

Since you guys mentioned Nason products, here is a tip for you when you get to the stage of filling pinholes in fiberglass, like your cowl.

Get yourself some Nason Fill and Sand. Period.

I read up on all the techniques out there to fill pinholes, including forcing filler into them with a squeege, etc. Then a friend of mine who used to be a body repair man turned me onto this stuff. Spray it on, sand it off. Do that for 3-4 coats, sanding the last coat smooth, not off, and then you are good to go.

I have yet to see any pinholes showing through my paint, and my paintshop did nothing to the fiberglass parts but wet sand them.

[captain_john]

Jeff, excellent tip!

Thanks for mentioning it! Here is the Tech Sheet:

http://www.performancecoatings.dupont.c ... 421-40.pdf

I used this stuff on a steel transformer rack that I welded together. It shoots smoothly and has great leveling qualities!

I have read some about those pinholes in Van's fiberglass parts and what I have concluded is that; yes, on first glance the pinholes give the notion that the parts are poorly made and that an insufficient about of resin could be on the part.

All things considered, the amount of resin is enough to saturate the cloth. Therefore, structureally you are fine. To have more resin or a gelcoat on top of that would make the cowling heavier.

Using a product like this spray filler is much wiser!

I am sold on the Nason stuff! I have yet to actually WASH my test platform (my front bumper) and it shows no wear at all! The abrasion resistance of the stuff is HUGE! Bug damage is non existent! This means the wing leading edges and cowling applications are ideal!

As far as detatchment goes... ROCK SOLID! No peeling or imperfections at all! It is holding up well!

I have confidence in the entire product line!

CJ

[aparchment]

Hey John:

What do you have to do to prep for spraying the Nason? Hopefully just scuff, clean and spray?

Is it available in any colors other than bile yellow/green? Not that there's anything wrong with bile yellow/green.

Antony

[smithhb]

This is the Nason Primer I am using in the "soothing gray".

[captain_john]

Antony,

My prep is to wash (as in dishwashing liquid and water) the parts with a fine scotchbrite pad and dry them with cotton.

If the parts don't fit in the bathtub, I do them outside on the deck. If it is too cold, I scuff them and then wipe them down with thinner.

Bret, good choice in products!

Keep in mind that epoxy will chalk up when exposed to sunlight for a period of time.

CJ

[aparchment]

Thanks John. I am almost finished with my AKZO, and I think it's time to switch.

[captain_john]

Cool, if you want to stay epoxy... try the stuff Bret has. If not, the self etch is fine.

Remember, epoxy is not good in sunlight and must be top coated. If not, it will chalk up!

CJ

[smithhb]

The Nason Tech Sheet says that the self-etch needs a top coat and with the epoxy it is recommended but not necessary. I was unaware of the chalking but plan to paint the exposed cockpit surfaces.