Building And Sealing Tanks With Clecoes?

Mike Balzer · Post by **Mike Balzer** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:15 pm

I read an article about an RV builder that assembled his tanks using clecoes and 6/32 nuts and then riveting it together the following day.

Does anyone know who's web site this was so I can read about it more.

I have been searching and haven't found it.

Any comments and information is appreciated.

Mike Balzer

Post by **bullojm1** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:25 pm

Mike-

I think that was Chad's website: http://www.chadandbrittne.com

Mike Balzer · Post by **Mike Balzer** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:28 pm

Thanks,
You sure replied fast. That is great to get answers so fast.
I will look at his site.

Thanks again

Mike Balzer

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:08 am

I did do this, and it worked great. The guys at work told me about this trick.

If you haven't found the entries on my site, the tanks start here...

http://www.chadandbrittne.com/May%20200 ... 030-06.htm

airguy · Post by **airguy** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:24 pm

I'm almost done with my second tank on the right wing (main plus auxiliary) but I think I'll try that fay sealing technique on the left side once I finish the right wing.

Did you use a regular dimple die or a tank dimple die? I used the tank dies on my right tanks, and they apparently open up the dimple just enough larger that every once in a while, maybe one in 50, I'll get a cleco that won't hold in the hole - it pulls through fairly easily. I've just about decided that it's due to the tank dimple dies since I've not had that problem anywhere else on the project.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:27 pm

I used regular dies...

TomNativeNewYorker · Post by **TomNativeNewYorker** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:15 am

what is the purpose of the nuts?

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:32 am

TomNativeNewYorker wrote:what is the purpose of the nuts?

Gives the cleco more tension in grip because the spring is compressed more than it would be just holding the layers together.

rv8or · Post by **rv8or** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:34 am

I did my tanks this way, and even stole Chad's technique with the nuts...worked great! And VERY minimal mess.

Joe

TomNativeNewYorker · Post by **TomNativeNewYorker** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:53 am

cjensen wrote:
TomNativeNewYorker wrote:what is the purpose of the nuts?
Gives the cleco more tension in grip because the spring is compressed more than it would be just holding the layers together.

OK, I will use a washer on the back side of the cleco if I want it pulled up extra tight. Also use wing nut clecos as they pull tighter.

airguy · Post by **airguy** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:44 pm

You might accidentally find out that the aviation department at Lowes sells the nuts bulk cheaper than washers...

TomNativeNewYorker · Post by **TomNativeNewYorker** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:49 pm

I dont pay for aircraft hardware, it is available for my use.

BSwayze · Post by **BSwayze** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:11 am

I finished up my tanks a few months ago, and I used the "fay sealing" method on the second one. So I've tried it both ways. I loved it! I wish I had done both of them that way. It's so much better than the mess you get otherwise. Cleanup is a breeze. No messy clecos. Any tiny blobs left on the clecos are easily pulled off with your fingers once they're rubbery or almost hard.

I used a syringe (minus the needle) that I got free from a pharmicist to apply the proseal. Then I put a cleco in every hole. I didn't use any nuts; never heard of that at the time. I used tank dimple dies, by the way. Leave it overnight, or better yet, a few days depending on the temperature, and then pull the clecos and wet rivet it together. Wet riveting as I'm describing it means using a toothpick to smear some wet proseal in every rivet hole before inserting the rivet, rotating it around in the hole to make sure it's all wet around the dimple. Rivet tape over the rivets keeps the rivet gun clean.

Here are 3 ribs fay-sealed and clecoed in place. After riveting is finished, I went back in and used the syringe to apply a bead around both sides of each rib, and a dab on top of every rivet.

Nothing feels better than a leak-free tank! This balloon held air for 3 days before I took it off.

If you want to read more about this, here's a link from that "other" site where I first read about this method. I can't recommend it highly enough.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/s ... php?t=7602

rv8or · Post by **rv8or** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:23 am

Good God, Man!:o

Those are the cleanest tanks I have ever seen! Nice job!

I think I added a couple of pounds to my plane just in Proseal...wish I had your skill/patience.

Joe

TomNativeNewYorker · Post by **TomNativeNewYorker** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:32 am

BSwayze wrote:It's so much better than the mess you get otherwise. Cleanup is a breeze. No messy clecos. Any tiny blobs left on the clecos are easily pulled off with your fingers once they're rubbery or almost hard.

A hint for using clecos with any type of sealant or especially if you are using structural adhesive. Spray your clecos especially the spring portion that goes through the hole with VV-L-800 or some other similar light oil lubricant. It sort of acts as a release agent helping make the clean up a little easier. Not perfect but it works better than nothing.

BSwayze wrote:Rivet tape over the rivets keeps the rivet gun clean.

A piece of masking tape on your rivet set helps too, and makes it a little easier to rivet since it wont slide around as much.

BSwayze · Post by **BSwayze** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:25 pm

rv8or wrote:Good God, Man!:o

Those are the cleanest tanks I have ever seen! Nice job!

I think I added a couple of pounds to my plane just in Proseal...wish I had your skill/patience.

Joe

Thanks Joe,

I bought one can of sealant and still have about half of it left, I think. I wasn't trying to scrimp at all, just do the job adequately. I smeared a generous layer on the flanges of each rib to make sure there were no blank spots The manual says to mix up portions "about the size of 4 or 5 golfballs" but that's way too much, in my experience. Much of it would go to waste or get too stiff to work with before you run out of time to apply it all. So I mixed up smaller portions and really took some time paying attention to detail.

Tom,

Those sound like great ideas!

Bruce

Wicked Stick · Post by **Wicked Stick** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:54 pm

TomNativeNewYorker wrote:
BSwayze wrote:It's so much better than the mess you get otherwise. Cleanup is a breeze. No messy clecos. Any tiny blobs left on the clecos are easily pulled off with your fingers once they're rubbery or almost hard.
I either cleaned them up with MEK after each session, or left them and pulled them clean as you did, then put them in a jar labeled "pro-seal cleco's" so I wouldn't mess up the rest of my stash.

A hint for using clecos with any type of sealant or especially if you are using structural adhesive. Spray your clecos especially the spring portion that goes through the hole with VV-L-800 or some other similar light oil lubricant. It sort of acts as a release agent helping make the clean up a little easier. Not perfect but it works better than nothing.

I would be a little cautious about coating the cleco's with anything kind of lubricant at all.. What if they contaminate the hole or surrounding area and the pro-seal can no longer bond to the surfarce area ?

Mike Balzer · Post by **Mike Balzer** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:34 pm

I must Say Thanks to everyone that contributed to this site and being able to share there knowlege and experience with fellow builders sure makes this one of my favorite sites,

Thanks to All

Mike Balzer

cook_ts · Post by **cook_ts** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:46 pm

I have been searching for threads re this subject without luck, and so I figured this was as good a place as any to start a discussion.

I am trying to decide what (if any) 'finish' should be applied to the internally (fuel exposed) surfaces of the fuel tanks.

I am assuming the faying/bonded surfaces are thoroughly cleaned and ruffed up in order to acheive a good bond and therefore the Alclad is completely removed. So the question for the bonding surfaces, should they be etched and alodined or what??

Additionally, there are areas that will not get coated with Pro-Seal resulting in exposed 'raw' aluminum and so what is the recommended approach here?

Tim Cook
Chino, CA
RV-7A

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:22 pm

Tim,

Leave it alone. Don't do anything. Some people I am sure have alodined it but that is unnecessary.

Just do the proseal and call it a day!

CJ

RivetBangers.com

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