ECI angle valve cylinders

hydroguy2 · Post by **hydroguy2** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:23 pm

Anyone out there using these yet?

http://www.eci.aero/exp/cyl_anglevalve_pr.aspx

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:03 am

Brian,

I would be willing to give it a try!

On another note but in a similar vein, have you seen this new IO-375 engine?

http://www.aerosportpower.com/docs/o-%2 ... engine.pdf

I wonder if it shares this same jug?

With this engine being only $24,000 it makes it a very attractive option compared to the $39,000 IO-390! Similar Horsepower and less cha-ching!

Chad, at one time you were considering a stroker before you snatched your core. What do you think about the 375?

CJ

hydroguy2 · Post by **hydroguy2** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:03 am

captain_john wrote: .... have you seen this new IO-375 engine?

http://www.aerosportpower.com/docs/o-%2 ... engine.pdf

I wonder if it shares this same jug?

With this engine being only $24,000 it makes it a very attractive option compared to the $39,000 IO-390! Similar Horsepower and less cha-ching!

CJ

Yep, I've talked with Aerosport last year about this engine. And actual cost the way I want it is closer to $26K,

last time I looked in my wallet i was a little short.

I believe the IO-375 uses parallel cylinders. 9.6CR for 205hp. I wonder if the angle cylinder would work to boost this a bit.

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:41 pm

From a dollar per horsepower perspective that is still pretty appealing!

Putting those jugs on that case might not be a simple bolt up affair. I dunno but it seems that the more "robust" designs have counterbalanced cranks.

People seem to hold the 200hp Arrow engine in less esteem than the 200hp Mooney engine. They both have angle valves but the Mooney has the counterbalanced (IO-360 A1B6) crank.

If I were building from ground up I would like to know more.

Mahlon, are you on the frequency? What do you know?

CJ

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:14 pm

captain_john wrote:Chad, at one time you were considering a stroker before you snatched your core. What do you think about the 375?

CJ

Great engine...none flying that I know of though, and getting cranks has been an issue lately to even get them...

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:54 pm

Now that was the exact question that came up today at the airport!

Where ARE the cranks coming from? Are they actually making any? Is this nothing but a pipe dream and an idea?

That would really be annoying!

CJ

Dan A · Post by **Dan A** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:21 pm

One thing about the angle valve engine is that it is heavier than the parallel valve. I am thinking about 30 pounds more. Therefore you have more weight up front. My parallel valve IO 360 from Bart with the electronic ignition produces about 190 hp as opposed to 200 hp in the angle valve engine. As I see it, I do not need the extra weight. A couple of weeks ago our saturday morning fly-out-to-breakfast group made a quick trip to a town about 80 miles southeast of here. I ran this trip at 25 squared and the indicated airspeed at 4500 ft was 180 knots with two of us aboard. round trip average was about 190 kts on the GPS. Not too shabby! My prop is the WW 200RV. A great prop! Unless you want to burn more fuel and have bragging rights to a larger engine, one really does not need the larger engine. If you insist on the larger engine, that's okay too.. I'll still pull away from you!

Dan N742DA

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:00 am

Dan, there is no replacement for displacement.

I am not afraid of too much weight. The-7 doesn't have a problem there, in fact by my plans it actually benefits by increasing baggage compartment loading.

The angle valve is a 27 pound hit, no doubt. It is because of the heavier crank and the requisite counterweights.

The IO-375 is a parallel valve arrangement and that would be comparable to your setup.

Any way you slice it, these planes do well. The -6 in my hangar that Bill H. is building has a 180 horse/carb and a wooden prop. I am sure that he will do very well against most any RV out there. Ya just can't go wrong...

I think the IO-375 is just a pipe dream. I have the luxury of time, but I just don't see these "strokers" making it, especially in this economy.

Too bad really.

CJ

hydroguy2 · Post by **hydroguy2** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:38 pm

got an email from Sue at AerosportPower. They are building lots of the O/IO-375's. And while it is possible to use the angle valve cylinders on this combo, they have not built any as it would require custom pistons.

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:57 pm

Hmmmm, I wouldn't want to be the first!

That is good to know. Did she say what "lots" is in a number? Kinda a relative statement if you ask me.

I am interested!

CJ

hydroguy2 · Post by **hydroguy2** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:09 pm

Their website shows over 30 builders(16 RV's) using the 375.

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:16 pm

Cool,

I suppose the next question is how many hours and are there any problems.

I am sure there isn't much empirical data gathered yet. THAT is always the real test!!!

CJ

Dan A · Post by **Dan A** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:03 pm

ECI builds great components. I put 4 ECI cylinders on the O200 I put in my old Taylorcraft back in the 90's They were a great investment. Bart builds great engines and you will be happy with one of his engines. And he stands behind them. Isn't the O375 just a O360 with 9.5:1 ratio pistons? I haven't read much about them.
Also, I found that it pays to buff out your paint job when you get it finished and give a little time for the finish to cure. I buffed mine out and polished it at the same time. I gained about 15 Kts speed at cruise. The little things do make a difference.

CJ, Thanks for the comeback! I would have been disappointed if you hadn't responded!

Dan A N742DA

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:59 pm

The 375 is a stroker. It is different...

15 knots after a buff job? I would have expected 30+ or more!

Hmmm, if that's it... I ain't buffin!

CJ

Bart Lalonde · Post by **Bart Lalonde** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:55 am

Hello all, I am usually just a lurker on this site but thought I better chime in on this thread as the 375 is one of my pet projects. We have built about 45 of the 375,s so far. They have gone into RVs, Glastars, Super Cubs and a few other home builts. We have a good supply of components for these engines and are building lots of them. The standard version has a compession ratio that will allow mogas and produces about 195 HP. There is also a high compression version that makes 205 HP plus. We have build some that make close to 300 HP using nitrous oxide. We don't recommend this for everbody but it does prove the engines are durable. The crankshafts are made off the same raw forging as the 320 and 360 cranks and go thru the same proceses. We would be interested in building a angle valve version if there was a demand.

hydroguy2 · Post by **hydroguy2** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:17 pm

Welcome Bart and thanks for the info "straight from the horses mouth"

I'll be talking with you at Arliington

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:30 pm

Bart,

Thanks for chiming in! I have heard your name but never spoken to you. I am interested in the 375.

All I want is a good honest 200 horsepower. I initially wanted the counterbalanced crankshaft but for about another $10,000 I am not sure it is cost effective when this engine you are offering now is much lighter as well.

I am not ready to buy an engine yet, but will watch your pet project closely.

Do you have any users with time on their 375's that we could chat with?

I am not building a racer. I just want a good performing & cruising engine. I don't want a finicky, hard to start, hot running engine. Is this the right engine for me?

Thanks again!

CJ

Bart Lalonde · Post by **Bart Lalonde** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:27 pm

Hello CJ. I am not sure if you are going injected or carburater, but if it is injection and you are interested in a non scoop lower cowl we can build a low compression (8-1 CR) IO-375 with the forward facing cold air induction. This engine make 200 plus HP. It has a BMEP of about 160 PSI, so it is not a real high pressure engine. Should give a good 2000 hour TBO. We could also build you a counter weighted 360 with a 1800.00 additional cost over the non counter weighted version. Jon Johanson in Australia has put some time in a 375 powered RV6 and Mike Olson of Mike Olson Dodge in Yakima Washington has put the most hours on the 375 so far. His has been run with loads of nitrous and is looking good for wear so far. He won the short take off and landing competition in Valdez Alaska this year. He came in second last year as well.

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:25 pm

Bart, Sounds great! That is lots of power from low compression! I do have a couple more questions.

What is BMEP?

Is installing a counter weighted crank a simple bolt on procedure?

Is it worthwhile (pro's & con's please)?

Would the ECI angle valves mentioned at the start of this thread be a good selection for this theoretical build?

I thought counterweights added lots more money than that! Looks like I need to talk to you at the show.

CJ

Bart Lalonde · Post by **Bart Lalonde** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:59 pm

CJ, BMEP stands for brake mean effective pressure. This is the average pressure in the cylinder during the power stroke. The standard 8.5-1 Lycoming has a peak pressure of about 750 PSI and a BMEP of 150 PSI or so. Add 10-1 CR and peak goes over 1000 PSI and BMEP goes to 155 PSI plus. This is why the prop manufacturers get nervous when guys start pumping up the static CR. The increase in peak pressure and BMEP change the engines harmonic signature and prop compatability becomes an unknown. Counter weighted crank engines don't suffer as badly because the pendulum dampeners (counter weights) absorb some of the potentially damaging harmonics (torsional vibrations). The counter weighted crankshaft is a direct bolt in on most models. They usally do away with any engine speed restrictions. We have a good supply of the counter weighted cranks and offer them as a reasonable cost upgrade.