For those of you using Alodine or its equivalent I am interested in your method of application. Specifically large or long items such as spars. Did you build a trough or apply by hand? Inquiring minds want to know. Actually, Im getting close to prime & assembly time.
-- John
Alodine method ...
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Spike
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Alodine method ...
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Current Build: 2 years into a beautiful little girl
Current Build: 2 years into a beautiful little girl
Spike,
I believe all the spars come with the Phlogeston treatment of anodizing. So you don't need to worry about them. For the smaller parts I bought some plastic trays about 8w X 4h X 14l inches for both the aluma-prep and alodine and soaked them as directed in the instructions. The biggest thing was the metal on the wings which I did outdoors in the summer. As long as you keep the solution wet you can do a fairly large section. For me it was about 3ft X 3ft. area and I treated the whole wing that way. It just took a few hours to do it. They came out in good shape. Good luck!
Dan
I believe all the spars come with the Phlogeston treatment of anodizing. So you don't need to worry about them. For the smaller parts I bought some plastic trays about 8w X 4h X 14l inches for both the aluma-prep and alodine and soaked them as directed in the instructions. The biggest thing was the metal on the wings which I did outdoors in the summer. As long as you keep the solution wet you can do a fairly large section. For me it was about 3ft X 3ft. area and I treated the whole wing that way. It just took a few hours to do it. They came out in good shape. Good luck!
Dan
Well, I'm glad you asked 
. I bought some large diameter PCV pipe and caps to match. Then cut a couple of tubes to the required length glued and caped both ends and cut in half along the center of the long axis of the tube. That gave me two trays a number of feet long (can't remember how long). Did that twice, made a set for rinsing also. It worked OK but had a tendency to slosh around 
. In all it really put me off to the whole alodining thing 
. I have since used smaller containers for smaller parts pictured elsewhere on this site with far better success. A hint to a person building a shop may be to include a plumbed in area with large tubs or sinks in order to better handle the larger sheet parts and oh yes....the toxic mess 
. That is if you just have to alodine. Love Canal rocks.
. I bought some large diameter PCV pipe and caps to match. Then cut a couple of tubes to the required length glued and caped both ends and cut in half along the center of the long axis of the tube. That gave me two trays a number of feet long (can't remember how long). Did that twice, made a set for rinsing also. It worked OK but had a tendency to slosh around . In all it really put me off to the whole alodining thing . I have since used smaller containers for smaller parts pictured elsewhere on this site with far better success. A hint to a person building a shop may be to include a plumbed in area with large tubs or sinks in order to better handle the larger sheet parts and oh yes....the toxic mess . That is if you just have to alodine. Love Canal rocks.-
aparchment
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alodine
Love Canal -- that's what the neighbors call the stream beside my house. Just kidding. No need to come over EPA.
Spike I used PVC gutters and end caps for Alumiprep and Alodining all of the empennage skeleton parts. The troughs have drain valves for easy draining of the liquids. For the skins I just laid them on a towel on the ground and prepped there. Finally I gave up on the Alodine treatment of the skins and used Napa 7220 rattle can self etching primer (after a good cleaning of course).
For the wings I plan to continue Alumiprepping and Alodining parts that will be primed on both sides and sticking to a self etching primer for the skins.
Antony
Spike I used PVC gutters and end caps for Alumiprep and Alodining all of the empennage skeleton parts. The troughs have drain valves for easy draining of the liquids. For the skins I just laid them on a towel on the ground and prepped there. Finally I gave up on the Alodine treatment of the skins and used Napa 7220 rattle can self etching primer (after a good cleaning of course).
For the wings I plan to continue Alumiprepping and Alodining parts that will be primed on both sides and sticking to a self etching primer for the skins.
Antony
Hi, Spike. I made up a frame out of 2x2s, then stapled plastic sheeting in it. When placed on the garage floor, it makes a nice shallow tray that doesn't take a huge amount of fluid. That works fine for skins (half immersed at a time) and most other empennage parts, wing ribs, etc. For other parts, I used anything plastic at hand - dishwashing tray, etc. Other things to use are the clear plastic storage boxes for christmas decorations and other things. Finally, for the wing spars (mine aren't factory-treated), I used the wing spar crate with plastic liner. StuccoMan gave me a couple of rolls of plastic sheeting that I use as disposable liners for the big wood framed dunk "tanks".
If you want to borrow any of 'em, let me know.
-poeboy
If you want to borrow any of 'em, let me know.
-poeboy
David Poe
RV6A builder/wings
RV6A builder/wings
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Spike
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I may be interested in the dunk tanks David. The one thing that I havent figure out yet are the HS spars. Ill probably have to go get another gallon of DX-503 while Im at it as I only got one previously.
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Current Build: 2 years into a beautiful little girl
Current Build: 2 years into a beautiful little girl
just saw this thread....
I posted this on another forum, but it seems apropriate here...
A family member came up with the idea of using a length of heat-sealable vacuum food storage bag for the longer parts. The bag comes in a continuous roll (21ft long) nine or eleven inches wide, which you normally seal on both ends with a heat/vacuum sealer.
In my case I sealed one end, added a pint or so of Alodine, and slid the spars and other long parts in one at a time. I just folded up the open end of the bag and sloshed the alodine up and down the length of the part. The result was a nice even application that was very "hands off". Even though I sealed only one end, no alodine exited the bag...just rolling up the end was enough to keep the splashes contained. The bag has a textured side that forms capilaries when pressed against a flat surface (to allow the air to be drawn out when evacuating) which help wet the web of the spar if you put the part in correctly, and you can roll a wave of alodine along the length of the spar by rocking and shaking the bag.
I thought it was cool. No mess, no waste, no open tubs, no smell. Once I got rolling it took less than 3 minutes to do each part.
The sealer and bags are from Tila, purchased at Costco, and also great for preventing freezer burn. The whole set-up is kinda expensive ($130) but I use it all the time for storing food and even some tools (wrapped in oiled cloth). You could probably just get some of the bag and figure out a way to seal one end too.
A family member came up with the idea of using a length of heat-sealable vacuum food storage bag for the longer parts. The bag comes in a continuous roll (21ft long) nine or eleven inches wide, which you normally seal on both ends with a heat/vacuum sealer.
In my case I sealed one end, added a pint or so of Alodine, and slid the spars and other long parts in one at a time. I just folded up the open end of the bag and sloshed the alodine up and down the length of the part. The result was a nice even application that was very "hands off". Even though I sealed only one end, no alodine exited the bag...just rolling up the end was enough to keep the splashes contained. The bag has a textured side that forms capilaries when pressed against a flat surface (to allow the air to be drawn out when evacuating) which help wet the web of the spar if you put the part in correctly, and you can roll a wave of alodine along the length of the spar by rocking and shaking the bag.
I thought it was cool. No mess, no waste, no open tubs, no smell. Once I got rolling it took less than 3 minutes to do each part.
The sealer and bags are from Tila, purchased at Costco, and also great for preventing freezer burn. The whole set-up is kinda expensive ($130) but I use it all the time for storing food and even some tools (wrapped in oiled cloth). You could probably just get some of the bag and figure out a way to seal one end too.
Jon
RV-8A -- emp.
RV-8A -- emp.
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Spike
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You are my hero!! I can't wait to hear what Patti says when she sees what Im going to do to her foodsaver That is an excellent idea!!!
-- John
That is an excellent idea!!!-- John
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Current Build: 2 years into a beautiful little girl
Current Build: 2 years into a beautiful little girl
Great idea using the seal-a-meal bags for the HS spars and long parts. I'll try it this weekend while my wife's out of town (don't tell her what I'm up to...if she knew she'd flip)
Does anyone alodine the inside of their skins? I was planning on brushing alodine on the interior skins and rinsing them off but this promises to be a messy affair. Any advice on how to keep this as hassle free as possible? If the consensus is that it ain't worth the trouble, I'll forego this step.
Rudy
Ripon, CA
-9A, priming HS
Does anyone alodine the inside of their skins? I was planning on brushing alodine on the interior skins and rinsing them off but this promises to be a messy affair. Any advice on how to keep this as hassle free as possible? If the consensus is that it ain't worth the trouble, I'll forego this step.
Rudy
Ripon, CA
-9A, priming HS
Personally, I'm not going to alodine (or prime) my skins.
My plan is:
Non-alclad inner structure (i.e. ribs not visible when the part is finished): alodine
Non-alclad visible structure (i.e. spar doublers and ribs exposed when part finished): alodine+AZKO
Alclad inner structure: bare
Alclad visible structure: alodine+AZKO
Skins: bare
The goal is max protection, minimum weight.
My plan is:
Non-alclad inner structure (i.e. ribs not visible when the part is finished): alodine
Non-alclad visible structure (i.e. spar doublers and ribs exposed when part finished): alodine+AZKO
Alclad inner structure: bare
Alclad visible structure: alodine+AZKO
Skins: bare
The goal is max protection, minimum weight.
Jon
RV-8A -- emp.
RV-8A -- emp.
i'm heading out to the shop right after i type this to alumiprep my ribs, so if anybody sees this very shortly, help me out here...
i'm wondering if just alodining (no primer) the wing ribs is a good idea in the interest of saving some weight. i think if i do this, i would prime the inner couple of ribs due to the fact that those will be accessible by water through the fairings when finished.
thoughts???
i'm wondering if just alodining (no primer) the wing ribs is a good idea in the interest of saving some weight. i think if i do this, i would prime the inner couple of ribs due to the fact that those will be accessible by water through the fairings when finished.
thoughts???
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Spike
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Hmm, thats very close to what Im doing Chad. I have been treating the ribs, etc, with DX503 (PPG's version of Alodine) and then only slightly priming the flanges, or where parts touch.
-- John
-- John
http://www.rivetbangers.com - Now integrating web and mail!
Current Build: 2 years into a beautiful little girl
Current Build: 2 years into a beautiful little girl
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TomNativeNewYorker
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For small parts, after getting water break free finish, I have soaked parts in small cups, coffee containers, or zip lock bags of different sizes.
Larger items have been done on workbenches and the alodine running on the floor along with a mess to clean up.
I have also worked in some areas that had large tables designed to alodine and rinse with different types of waste collection designs. But this was in an industrial area where it is more practical to implement.
When doing on aircraft work where vertical sufraces needed to be alodined, we had 12"x12" shop wipes (toilet tissue paper type paper).
I would water break free prep the surface, the place a place a wipe on the damp area to be alodined. Next I would slowly apply alodine to the wipe. This keeps more alodine (where you need it) on the surface needing treatment instead of having it all run down the fuselage.
Another thing on the market is the touch and prep alodine pen that does not even require rinsing. I havent had the chance to try it yet, but others I know say it makes things a lot easier to do with the pen.
http://www.environmentalsupportoffice.c ... Feb_03.pdf
Larger items have been done on workbenches and the alodine running on the floor along with a mess to clean up.
I have also worked in some areas that had large tables designed to alodine and rinse with different types of waste collection designs. But this was in an industrial area where it is more practical to implement.
When doing on aircraft work where vertical sufraces needed to be alodined, we had 12"x12" shop wipes (toilet tissue paper type paper).
I would water break free prep the surface, the place a place a wipe on the damp area to be alodined. Next I would slowly apply alodine to the wipe. This keeps more alodine (where you need it) on the surface needing treatment instead of having it all run down the fuselage.
Another thing on the market is the touch and prep alodine pen that does not even require rinsing. I havent had the chance to try it yet, but others I know say it makes things a lot easier to do with the pen.
http://www.environmentalsupportoffice.c ... Feb_03.pdf
felt great!